>> GOOD AFTERNOON. WELCOME TO THE DURHAM PLANNING COMMISSION. WE'RE GLAD YOU JOINED US THIS EVENING. THE MEMBERS OF THE DURHAM PLANNING COMMISSION HAVE BEEN APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS AS AN ADVISORY BOARD TO THE ELECTED OFFICIALS. YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THE ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON ANY ISSUE BEFORE US TONIGHT. WE HAVE ONE MAIN AGENDA ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA SO WE URGE YOU IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, PLEASE COME AND SIGN UP TO THE TABLE ON MY LET. PUT DOWN YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND A INDICATE IF YOU ARE FOR OR AGAINST.
YOU MIGHT BE IN THE MIDDLE AND INDICATE THAT AS WELL. WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN TO SPEAK, COME UP TO THE MOOIJ MICROPHONE, SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE AD YOU CAN SHARE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE TIME TO SPEAK. OUR RULES ARE THAT EACH SIDE ON EACH ITEM HAVE TEN MINUTES PER SIDE, SO TEN MINUTES FOR THOSE SPEAKING IN FAVOR, TEN MENS FOR THOSE SPEAKING AGAINST. BUT WE CAN AMEND THOSE RULES DEPENDING ON ITEM IN FRONT OF US. THAT MAY BE SOMETHING WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THOOECHG. FINAL LYRIC ALL MOTIONS STATED IN AFFIRMATIVE, SO IF A MOTION FAILS OR TIES THE RECOMMENDATION IS FOR DENIAL. ROLL CALL, PLEASE. >> COMMISSIONER KENCHEN REQUESTED AN EXCUSED ABSENCE.
COMMISSIONER BAKER REQUESTED AN EXCUSED ABSENCE. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE AN EXCUSED ABSENSE FOR COMMISSIONER BAKER AND COMMISSIONER KENCHEN. >> SECOND. >> MOVED BY COMMISSIONER BRINE, SECONDED BY VICE CHAIR HYMAN. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THE AYES HAVE IT. WE WILL MOVE TO THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES AND CONSISTENCY STATEMENTS FROM OUR APRIL 9TH MEETING. ANY COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS, EDITS OR MOTION FOR APPROVAL? >> I MOVE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES AND CONSISTENCY STATEMENTS AS PRESENTED. >> SECOND. >> MOVED BY COMMISSIONER BRNE AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MORGAN. ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. WE'LL MOVE TO ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA. MRS. SMITH. >> NO RECOMMENDATION, BUT WE'D LIKE TO ADD T TWO VERY BRIEF ITEMS UNDER NEW BUSINESS. B WOULD BE RESOLUTIONS HONORING PAST PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS AND ITEM C, JUST A VERY BRIEF UPDATE ON SOME FUTURE TRAINING. >> THANK YOU. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE WE ADOPT AGENDA WITH THE ADDITIONAL ITEMS DESCRIBED BY MS. SMITH. >> SECOND. >> PROPERLY MOVED AND SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. >> WITH THAT, STAFF WOULD LIKE TO REMIND COMMISSION THAT THE ITEM THAT WAS ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT WAS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR PUBLIC HEARING AND SO RE-ADVERTISEMENT WAS NOT REQUIRED. ADVERTISEMENT WAS DONE FOR THE ORIGINAL HEARING. >> THANK YOU. AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO OUR MAIN ITEM THIS EVENING. 8. PUBLIC HEARINGS: TEXT AMENDMENTS TO THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE. TC 1800007 EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN SPEAKING, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE TABLE AND WE'LL CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING WHICH WE OPENED TWO MONTHS AGO. WE WILL CERTAINLY LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING YOUR COMMENTS BUT WE'LL START WITH STAFF PRESENTATION. >> MICHAEL STOCK WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. BACK IN MARCH, WE HAD A PRTTY LENGTHY AND SUBSTANTIAL PRESENTATION PRESENTED BEFORE YOU AND FOLKS WITHIN THE AUDIENCE AND THOSE WATCHING AT HOME AND ALSO YOU HEARD NUMEROUS COMMENTS. WE HAVE A BRIEF PRESENTATION WHICH PRTTY MUCH JUST WANTED TO UPDATE YOU AS TO OUTREACH AND ALSO KIND OF FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON AT LEAST ONE OF THE ATTACHMENTS IN YOUR AGENDA WITH THE SUPPLEMENTAL MEMO ABOUT SPECIFIC TEXT AMENDMENT ALTERNATIVES THAT RECEIVED THE MOST FOCUS THAT WE'VE HEARD UPON.
UM, OUTREACH SINCE THE MARCH 13th MEETING, THIS IS THE LIST OF GROUPS AND EVENTS THAT PLANNING DEPARTMENT HAS MET WITH OR BEEN INVOLVED WITH. NOT GOING TO DISCUSS EACH ONE, BUT THE BIGGEST — WELL, THE MOST INTERESTING ONE WE HELD WAS APRIL 27TH T COMMUNITY CONVERSATION WHERE OVER AT THE WALLTOWN COMMUNITY CENTER. WE HAD OVER 40, CLOSE TO 50, ATTENDEES. WE HAD SPANISH TRANSLATION, ACTUAL KID ACTIVITIES AND SUPERVISION OF THOSE KIDS. [LAUGHTER] AND IT WAS ACTUALLY A LOT OF FUN. WHAT WAS GREAT ABOUT IT WAS THAT THE PLANNING DIRECT DREK TOR NOT ONLY PRESENTED WHAT WAS PRESENTED AT THE MARCH HEARING SO EVRYBODY WAS ON THE SAME FOOTING, BUT IF YOU'RE NOT AWARE, WE WERE ABLE TO HVE FOLKS WHO ATTENDED BREAK UP INTO SMALL DISCUSSION GROUPS. I RECOGNIZE SOME OF THE FOLKS HERE TONIGHT THAT WERE AT THAT OF UH YOU WERE NOT.RE A NUMBER – UM, AND THEY WERE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT WERE REPORT BACK TO THE LARGER GROUP TO HAVE A DSCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THEY SUPPORTIVE OF AND NOT SUPPORTIVE OF AND SEE IF THERE WERE CONSENSUS.
THE OTHER THING WE WANTED TO DISCUSS WITH YOU IS WITHIN YOUR AGENDA PACKET IS SOME OF THE POINTS THAT WERE MOST TALKED ABOUT AND BASED UPON THAT PUBLIC INPUT AND THE OPTIONS THAT ARE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT BASED UPON THOSE SPECIFIC POINTS. WHAT WAS IN THE PACKET ALONG WITH SUPPLEMENTAL MEMO THAT DISCUSSED ISSUES STAFF HEARD IS A VERY FINE-TUNED, SPECIFIC LIST OF POINTS TO TALK ABOUT BUT ALSO THERE IS A BROADER TABLE OF COMPARISONS THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE EYE-CROSSING AT TIMES BUT WE TRIED TO PROVIDE YOU AS IN SIMPLISTIC FORM AS POSSIBLE THE COMPARISON BETWEEN CURRENT WHAT WAS PROPOSED IN NOVEMBER AND WHAT WAS PROPOSED IN MARCH. NO CHANGES MDE BY STAFF FROM THE MARCH ITEM. THAT DOESN'T MEAN CHANGES CAN'T BE MADE GOING FORWARD, BUT WE WANTED TO STAY CONSISTENT AT THIS POINT SINCE PUBLIC HEARING WAS STILL OPEN. WHOOPS, I'M SORRY. GO BACK FOR A SECOND. FOR THE VERY SPECIFIC ITEMS WE E WANTED TO FOCUS ON, AND AGAIN, THESE CAN BE FOCUSED ON AND ALSO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE, WE PROVIDED A COUPLE OPTIONS.
OPTION A IS WHAT IS REPRESENTED IN CURRENT STAFF DRAFT SUBMITTED IN MARCH. OPTION B WAS THE NOVEMBER DISCUSSION DRAFT VERSION, AND THEN INDICATED THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT. SO JUST TO BRIEFLY GO THROUGH THAT, AND FOR THOSE SITTING IN THE AUDIENCE AND WATCHING ON TV OR ONLINE, UM, WE HEARD A NUMBER OF COMMENTS REGARDING THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS AND STANDARDS THAT WERE PROPOSED FOR CHANGE. I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO DETAIL WITH EACH AND EVERY ONE, BUT OFF THE STAFF DRAFT PRVIDED BACK IN MARCH PROVIDED FOR A SLIGHTLY TIERED AND REVISED METHODOLOGY FOR CALCULATING HEIGHT, THE NOVEMBER DRAFT DIDN'T CHANGE ANY OF THE CURRENT REQUIREMENTS AND THE CURRENT REQUIREMENTS ARE AS LISTED FOR RS ZONING IT WAS A MAXIMUM OF 15 FEET WITHIN 10 FEET OF PROPERTY LINE AND RU, 25 FEET WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE PROPERTY LINE. WITH ANOTHER ISSUE THAT SEEMED TO BE A HOT TOP TICK WITH ADU WAS ALLOWING ONE WITH A DUPLEX. THE MARCH DRAFT DID NOT WOULD NOT ALLOW AN ADU WITH A DUPLEX.
IN NOVEMBER, THAT WAS PROPOSED TO ALLOW THAT AND THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT DOES NOT ALLOW AN ADU WITH A DUPLEX. UM, THE NEXT WAS, THERE'S A NEW OPTION, SMALL LOT OPTION PROPOSED CONSISTENT WITH BOTH NOVEMBER AND MARCH DRAFTS. THE NOVEMBER DRAFT OPTION B ALLOWED ADUs WITH THE SMALLER LOT SIZES. THE MARCH DRAFT WOULD NOT ALLOW ADUs WITH THOSE. AGAIN, ADUs ARE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. GETTING OUT OF THE ADUs INTO MAXIMUM DENSITY UH, UM, THE ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES WE HEARD WAS WHEN THE ZONING DENSITY CAPS WOULD BE APPLIED, UM, OPTION A WOULD CHANGE THE CURRENT REQUIREMENTS TO APPLY THE DENSITY CAP TO EXEMPT PLATS AND EXEMPT PLATS ALLOW FOR THOSE ARE STATE-ALLOWED SUBDIVISIONS OF LAND OF UP TO THREE LOTS,LESS THAN TWO SAKERS.
CURRENT REQUIREMENT DOES NOT REQUIRE A DENSITY CAP FOR THOSE AND NOVEMBER DRAFT ALSO DID NOT REQUIRE A DENSITY CAP FOR THOSE. AND ALSO, WITH THE SMALL LOT OPTIONS FOR REDUCING CURRENT LOT SIZES, WE HAVE PROVIDED ADDITIONAL SUPPLEMENTAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THOSE, SUCH AS DRIVEWAY DESIGN AND LOCATION, ADDITIONAL TREE PLANT ORG PROTECTING, DOWN SPOUT PLACEMENT AND EVEN DENSITY CAP FOR THE VERY SMALL LOT OTION B DOWN TO TWO THOUSAND SQUARE FEET.
THOSE WERE PROVIDED IN THE MARCH DRAFT. THOSE WERE NOT, UM, WITHIN THE NOVEMBER DRAFT, AND AGAIN THIS THERE'S NO CURRENT REQUIREMENT NOW BECAUSE THIS IS SA NW PROPOSAL. ALSO IN FILL STANDARDS, ONE OF THE NEW THINGS THAT WERE PROPOSED FOR IN FILL WAS PROVIDED MAXIMUM BUILDING COVERAGE, NOT OVERALL IMPERVIOUS SURFACE COVERAGE BU JUST COVERAGE FOR BUILDING ON THE LOTS AND THAT WOULD BE MAXIMUM OF 40%. I BELIEVE THERE WOULD BE — AND THEN, SORRY, THEN NOVEMBER DRAFT THERE WAS NO MAXIMUM BUILDING COVERAGE PROVIDED. CURRENT REQUIREMENTS DON'T HAVE MAXIMUM BUILDING COVERAGE UNLESS YOU'RE IN WATER SUPPLY WATERSHED. THIS IS WORDY. MAXIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE. THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT IS WHETHER IT'S THE BASE ZONING, LEFT BASE ZONING OR MORE THAN 14 FEET, AND THERE'S ALSO A HEIGHT LOOKING AT ADJACENT STRUCTURES BUT YOU GET TO EXEMPT THAT 1 FEET IF IT'S MORE THAN 25 FEET. THE NOVEMBER DRAFT KIND OF KEPT THAT STANDARD BUT CLARIFIED WHICH ADJACENT STRUCTURES WE WERE LOOKING AT AND ALSO REMOVED 20 FOOT EXCEPTION SO IT WOULD APPLY NO MATTER WHAT.
THEN THE MARCH PLANNING DRAFT ACTUALLY CHANGED REQUIREMENT COMPLETELY AND SET THE STANDARD AS NO HIGHER THAN THE TALLEST BUILDING ON THE SUBJECT BLOCK FACE AND OPPOSED BLOCK FACE AND YOU COULD SEEK A HIGHER SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO GET HIGHER HEIGHT. RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED DRAFT, AND HERE IS THE WEB SITE AND E-MAIL ADDRESS IF YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS OR CONCERNS YOU'D LIKE TO SEND STAFF. HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU. WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'M SURE WE'LL HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR STOCK FOLLOWING PUBLIC HEARING. THANK YOU, SCOTT. COMMISSIONERS, I EXPECT THAT WE'D HAVE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF SPEAKERS AND WE DO.
JUST QUICKLY UH LOOKING, BUT WE HAVE AT LEAST 25, IT APPEARS, SPEAKERS WHO HAVE SIGNED UP. THIS IS A CONTINUED HEARING, SO WE DID HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKERS WHO ADDRESSED THIS IN MARCH. YOU ARE WELCOME TO SPEAK AGAIN. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE US CONSIDER HAVING DISCUSSION TO HAVE A LONGER DISCUSSION, MORE THAN TEN MINUTES PER SIDE TO ALLOW ROBUST CONVERSATION. >> I WOULD ASK TO AMEND IT TO ALLOW THREE MINUTES PER EACH SPEAKER AND THAT WE GIVE THEM ENOUGH TIME TO EXPRESS THEIR THOUGHTS. >> HOW MANY? >> THREE MINUTES. >> SECOND THAT MOTION. >> SO THE MOTION BEFORE US MOVED AND SECONDED IS TO ALLOW EACH SPEAKER THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, WE WILL VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY UH OPPOSED? AYES HAVE IT. SO, WHAT I'M GOING TO DO — WE DID THIS LAST TIME AS. WE HAVE A SERIES OF SPEAKERS. WE OFTEN WILL HAVE THOSE SPEAKING FOR AND THOSE SPEAKING AGAINST. WE GOT A LOT OF FOLKS WHO SOME ARE SAYING FOR, SOME AGAINST, SOME HAVE NOT INDICATED. SOME, I THINK, ARE SAYING MAYBE THEY'RE FOR, MAYBE AGINST BUT MODIFICATIONS.
WE'RE GOING TO RUN THROUGH THE LIST — THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN USUAL. JUST TO REMIND FOLKS I'LL NAME A FEW NAMES SO YOU'LL BE READY TO COME UP. THERE IS A CLOCK THAT YOU SHOULD KEEP AN EYE ON THAT WILL COUNT DOWN YOUR THREE MINUTES, AND YOU WILL HEAR A BEEP AT THE END OF YOUR THREE MINUTES. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO PLEASE FINISH YOUR THOUGHT IF YOU ARE STILL SPEAKING AND ALLOW THE NEXT SPEAKER TO COME AND SPEAK AS WELL.
MS. SMITH. >> STAFF WOULD GRACIOUSLY REQUEST THAT YOU DO THEM IN GROUPS. HAVE THE FORs, AGAINSTs, AND UNDECIDED OR VICE VERSA. LAST TIME, WE HAD TO GO BACK THROUGH AND WATCH THE WHOLE TAPE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE WERE UNDECIDED AN THEY GOT GROUPED IN WITH WRONG GROUP AND HAD TO TAKE A HALF DAY OF MY TIE UH TO FIGURE THAT OUT. >> WE HAVE EIGHT OR NINE FOLKS WHO DID NOT INDICATE. >> FINE. >> THIS WIL NOT BE PERECT >> THAT'S FINE, JUST DO THE BEST YOU CAN. USUALLY WHAT WE DO IS TAKE WHEN DOING THE HEARINGS WE HAVE APPLICANT WHICH ARE NORMALLY FOR, THEN YOU HAVE THE FOLKS, THE OPPOSITION. HOWEVER YOU WANT TIE RANGE IT IS FINE WITH ME, I'D JUST LIKE THE HAVE THEM IN GROUPS, IF POSSIBLE.
>> I'LL KEEP SCORE AS PEOPLE SPEAK. >> THAT MIGHT BE BETTER TO HELP ME. >> IT'LL BE HIS FAULT WHEN YOU GET IT WRONG. >> THAT'S RIGHT. [LAUGHTER] >> IF I GET AN E-MAIL THAT'S NOT CORRECT, I'LL SEND IT TO YOU. >> THAT MATCHES MY WHEEL HOUSE. >> THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT VERY MUCH, WE APPRECIATE IT. >> WE'RE JUST GOING TO CALL YOU IN ORDER. I'LL DO MY BEST, MAY EVEN ASK YOU IF YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR OR AGAINST SO WE CAN GET THT NOTED.
WE'RE GOING START — AGAIN, I MAY NOT GET YOUR NAMES PRONOUNCED DIRECTLY SO PLEASE FORGIVE ME IN ADVANCE. JAY LAUREN BATORY. IF YOU CAN COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE AN IF YOU COULD GIVE US NAME AND ADDRESS AND THEN REMARKS. MARY BARZY IS NEXT. >> JAY BATORY 1514 WEST MAR CUM AVENUE. MY WIFE AND VI LIVED IN TRINITY PARK FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS A AND ARE GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE OR IMPRESSION OF TC 10. WE LOVED THE TREE THERE IS. THE NEXT THING WE NOTICED WAS BALANCE BETWEEN MULTIFAMILY, SOMETIMES HIGH-RISE DWELLINGS, AND PROVIDE HOMES. HOMES ARE VARIOUS SIZES FOR PEOPLE OF VARIOUS STAGES IN LIFE COULD LIVE TOGETHER. FOR SUS MATCHED BY SIMENT THINK MATCHED BEHIND IT. URBAN SPRAWL I — IF CURRENT PROPOSAL IS IMPLEMENTED WE FEAR A NUMBER OF RESULTS. ONE WOULD BE THE PROLIFERATION OF AK A SESZ RI HOUSING UNITS ON EACH PLOT WHICH WOULD INCREASE DENSITY OF POPULATION SIGNIFICANTLY AND ALSO INCREASE RUNOFF DUE TO INCREASED PAVING THAT WILL ALSO ACCOMPANY THESE DEVELOPMENTS.
CONCERN IS WITH THE LOSS OF TREES THAT WOULD RESULT IN THE PROLIFERATION OF ACCESSORY HOUSING UNITS. FURTHERMORE, AS WAS MADE VERY CLEAR TO US, RESTRICTIONS ON THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THESE AK RESZ RI BUILDINGS ARE AGAINST THE LAW. OUR CONCERN IS THAT DEVELOPERS CONCERNED WITH SHORT-TERM RENTAL PROFITS WOULD BUILD UTILITARIAN LOOKING ARCHITECTURE THAT WOULD ARM AESTHETICS OF NEIGHBORHOOD. FINALLY, CONCERNED ABOUT INCREASED POPULATION DENSITY AND LOSS OF PARKING. THERE ARE BETTER WAYS OF ADDRESSING THE LOTABLE INSPIRATION BEHIND THIS PROPOSAL AND THOSE WOULD BE HIGH-RISE DEVELOPMENTS ON CURRENTLY-AVAILABLE PLOTS OF LAND WHICH MY WIFE AND I NOTICE ALL THE TIME AS WE'RE DRIVING AROUND DURHAM.
FURTHERMORE, THOSE HOUSING UNITS SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO INCLUDE MODERATE INCOME UNITS, CONDOMINIUM AND RENTAL UNITS THAT WOULD SERVE PEOPLE OF MODERATE INCOME. I BELIEVE THAT SUCH DEVELOPMENTS COULD TAKE GREATER ATTENTION TO TRAFFIC FLOW AND TO POPULATION FLOW. PROVISION OF PARKING BECAUSE THERE ARE NEW UNITS THAT COULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE UNDERGROWTH PARKING. IN SUM, I WOULD STRONGLY OPPOSE TC 18. WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT TRINITY PARK WOULD BENEFIT AND WE BELIEVE THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD BE DAMAGED SIGNIFICANTLY BY PROLIFERATION OF UTILITARIAN-LOOKING ADUs, POPULATION OVERCROWDING AND LOSS OF PARKING. I STRONGLY OPPOSE TC 18. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> [INDISCERNIBLE]. WALLTOWN SINCE 2004, HOME OWNER. UNDER CURRENT REGULATIONS I'M NOT ABLE TO BUILD A ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IN MY BACKYARD DESPITE THE FACT WE'RE TWO BLOCKS FROM TRINITY HEIGHTS WHERE THERE ARE SEVERAL ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. MY HOUSE IS ABOUT 1100 SQUARE FEET AND SINCE 2010, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO WORK WITH PLANNING DEPARTMENT TO BUILD AN ADU FOR MY ELDERLY MOTHER.
IT DIDN'T WORK OUT BECAUSE OF THE SIZE RESTRICTIONS, AND WE ENDED UP PURCHASING A HOME FOR MY MOTHER AT GREAT COST TO US. BASICALLY, I'M FOR THIS PROPOSAL BECAUSE I'D BE HAPPY TO SERVE AS A CASE STU. IT WOULD DIRECTLY BENEFIT MY FAMILY. WE'D BE ABLE TO BUILD A ADU FOR ELDERLY RELATIVE AND POSSIBLY UH DISPLAY SOME OF THE RENTAL COSTS BY RENTING IT TO HER. I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE FEARS THAT PEPLE HAVE ABOUT ADDING MORE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS BUT IT'S WONDERFUL TO HAVE RENTERS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE HAVE SEVERAL ON OUR BLOCK AND WE'RE CURRENTLY OFFSETTING RUNOFF BY A RAIN GARDEN, PLANTED STREET TREES AND WATER CATCHMENT SYSTEM TO WATER OUR GARDEN. I THINK IT WOULD REALLY BENEFIT MY NEIGHBORHOOD TO BE ABLE TO INCREASE DENSITY AND HAVE MORE RENTAL UNITS AVAILABLE, AND UM, I ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO ACCEPT THE CURRENT PROPOSAL. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. BOB CHAPMAN. SILL VI ROBERG IS NEXT. >> BOB CHAPMAN, 2525 LA NEAR PLACE. REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER HERE IN DURHAM. IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, I INVITE YOU TO GO LOOK AT TRINITY HEIGHT WHICH IS IS A PROJECT I DID FO DUKE A FEW YEARS AGO AND THERE'S 40 UNITS OVER THERE AND THEY MADE ALL OF THE LARGE HOUSES THERE AFFORDABLE AND ALSO WERE AFFORDABLE THEMSELVES. THE WEEK EBDZ, MY PARTNER AND I WENT UP TO OVER TO SEATTLE AND UP TO VAN COVER TO DO RESEARCH. WE MET WITH THREE ORGANIZATIONS FOCUSED ON AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND IN FILL DEVELOPMENT. ONE WAS IN THE MAOR'S OFFICE T OTHER WAS SIDE UHLINE INSTITUTE. THE THIRD GAVE ME A POST TORE BRING AND I'D LIKE TO BRING CLUE WHAT THEY SAY ON THE POSTER.
THE ORGANIZATION IS CALLED SEATTLE FOR EVERYONE.ORG. IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING IS A HUMAN RIGHTS, MORE NEIGHBORS EQUALS MORE FUN, ADU RZ AWESOME, CHARACTERS MAKE UP THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER. TRY PLEXES AND FOURPLEXES ARE PRETTY. OUR CITY IS FOR EVERYONE. THAT APPLIES TO OUR CITY HERE. I'M STRONGLY IN FAVOR OF OPTION BT CHANGES THAT WERE MADE BEHIND THE SCENES REALLY DIE LUTED AND ALMOST DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF THE ENTIRE THING. ON THE TRIP BACK, I HAD TIME TO READ NEWSPAPERS AND RAN INTO BRITISH NEWSPAPERS T BRITISH COMMUNITIES AND SECETARY, HOMEOWNERS ARE BETRAYING NEXT GENERATION.
TOO MANY PEOPLE OBJECT TO HOUSES BEING BUILT NEXT TO US. SECRETARY OF COMMUNITIES URGED PEOPLE TO CHANGE THAT ATTITUDE. I THINK THAT COULD APPLY HERE. THEN I SAW RICHARD REEVES A SENIOR FELLOW FOR BROOKINGS COINED A TERM CALLED EXCLUSIONARY ZONE CHG HE DEINES AS A FORM OF OPPORTUNITY HOARDING BY THE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS. A MARKET DISTORTION THAT RESTRICTS ACCESS TO A SCARCE GOOD. IN THS CASE, LAND, THAT RESTRICTS OPPORTUNITIES SUCH AS GOOD SCHOOLS FOR OTHER CHILDREN. THOSE MIDDLE CLASS VOTERS WHO OPPOSE MORE MIXED USE HOUSING ARE WHAT I CALL DREAM ORD HOARDERS KEEPING ELEMENTS OF THE AMERICAN DREAMS FOR THEMSELVES AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. WE HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING WONDERFUL IN DURHAM. WHEN WE WERE IN VANCOUVER, WE STAYED AT A B & B WHICH HAD A BASEMENT AND GARAGE APARTMENT WHICH THEY CALL LANEWAY COTTAGE, AND I SAID YOU TWO APARTMENTS HERE AND VERY SMALL HOUSE, VERY SMALL LOT, WAY UH MORE THAN 40% COVERAGE. I SAID, WHY'D YOU DO THAT? HE SAID, WE HAVE TO OTHERWISE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE NOWHERE TO LIVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. SILL >> SILL VI, 1515 COURT, EXCEEDING MY TIME TO MY MY UH KESZLER.
>> SUZANNE EMSLER THEN JENINE TOMKINS. >> [INDISCERNIBLE]. >> JENINE, CEDE MY TIME. >> THANK YOU. JAMIE SURL. >> JAMES SURL, 907 EENG LWOOD AVENUE, CEDING MY TIME TO MY MY KESZLER. >> WENDY AND GILL SMITH. YOU'RE SIGNED UP TOGETHER, CORRECT? >> I THINK WE'RE TWO, ACTUALLY. >> OKAY. >> WENDY SMITH, 2223 KRAN DAL >> SMITH CEDING TIME TO MIMI.I.- >> CHRISTY FERGUSON.
AN THEN MIMI KESZLER. >> [LOW AUDIO]. >> YOU'RE CEDING YOUR TIME AS WELL, CORRECT? OKAY. >> MS. KESLER? >> AT LEAST 20. >> TWENTY FOUR. >> THERE ARE EIGHT — THERE ARE EIGHT. >> I DON'T PLAN TO TAKE UP THAT MUCH TIME. >> WE THANK YOU. >> CHAIR BUZBY, I'M GOING TO VERIFY SET THE CLOCK FOR 24 MINUTES, CORRECT? >> YES.
>> DON'T START MY TIME YET BECAUSE VI TO FIND — I HAVE TO FIND MY THING. OH, I SEE, GOT IT. JUST A MINUTE, I'M NOT STARTING YET. >> MIMI KESSLER, 1418 WOODLAND DRIVE. AT RISK OF SOUNDING LIKE A GRADE SCHOOLER TALKING ABOUT WA WE DID FOR OUR SUMMER VACATION, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT I'VE DONE IN THE LAST 60 DAYS. I TRIED TO CONVENE A PANEL OF ALL STAKEHOLDERS. I WAS ABLE TO RECRUIT FROM NEIGHBORHOODS OTHER THAN MY OWN. BUT I WAS UNSUCCESSFUL IN RECRUITING FROM THE ONE I CONSIDER TO BE THE MOST VULNERABLE NEIGHBORHOODS, AND I ALSO WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTRACT ANY TIGSERS WHO WERE INTERESTED PRACTITIONERS WHO WERE INTERESTED IN DEVELOPING TRULY AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
I WAS FORTUNATE TO FIND A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WORKED TIRELESSLY SORTING OUT INFORMATION FROM A VARIETY OF SOURCES AND HAVING INTENSE CONVERSATIONS OVER THE LAST COUPING OF VEHICLES TO PREPARE FOR TONGHT. I WANT TO THANK ALL THOSE PEOPLE — AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE — AND IN MANY CASES I'M SPEAKING FOR THEM ALSO. SO I MAY TAKE A FEW MORE MINUTES, BUT YOU'LL HEAR FEWER PEOPLE OVER THE COURSE OF THE EVENING. SO I DO THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK, AND I FEEL MUCH BETTER PREPARED THAN I WOULD HAVE WITHOUT YOU. I SENT LATER TO THE COMMISSIONERS LAST NIGHT AND MY PRESENTATION IS GOING TO FOLLOW THE CNTENT OF THAT LETTER, SO YOU'LL BE ABLE TO FOLLOW ALONG. FIRST, THERE WOULD BE SOME PROMISES FOR THIS INITIATIVE AND THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED IN THE LAST 60 DAYS AND I'M GOING TO REVIEW THEM BECAUSE I THINK THAT THEY'RE WORTH REPEATING. A CITY UH IS ITS PEOPLE, SO HERE WE HAVE CITIZENS WHO WERE NOT INVOLVED AT THE BEGINNING.
I HAVE COME TO FEEL THAT THEY DON'T MATTER TO THE MAYOR OR TO THE CITY, UM, STAFF. THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY AFTER ALL THE YEARS THAT THEY HAVE PUT INTO BUILDING THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THEY MATTER LESS THAN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ABOUT TO MOVE HERE AND WHO MIGHT BE MORE WEALTHY THAN THEY ARE. THEN THERE ARE THE PRACTITIONERS WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED FOR OVER A YEAR AND THEY'RE FEELING IMPATIENT, AND I DON'T BLAME THEM. THERE ARE THE CITIZENS WHO HAVE SUPPORTED THIS INITIATIVE FROM THE BEGINNING AND WHO ARE FEELING IMPATIENT AS WEL. SO THERE'S A REAL DIVIDE IN OUR CITY BETWEEN THE PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH IT AND THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE WITH IT.3 FOR THE RECORD, I'M STILL ON THE FENCE. SO THIS IS I THINK UH A GRAND EXPERIMENT. THE STAFF IS CONFIDENT, BUT THEY CAN'T FIND ANY PLACE WHERE THIS HAS ACTUALLY WORKED AND I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO EITHER.
THEY SAY THAT THIS PARTICULAR APPROACH HAS NOT BEEN TRIED IN OTHER CITIES AND SO THEREFORE THE REPORT FROM OTHER CITIES ARE NOT APPLICABLE. UM, BUT THE OTHER CITIES HAVE HAD SOME DISASTROUS RESULTS AND THERE ARE LAWSUITS PENDING AND MANY OF THEM ARE DOWN ZONING AND I THINK WE NEED TO LEARN FOM THEIR EXPERIENCE. THE MOST VULNERABLE NEIGHBORHOODS IN OUR AREA ARE NOT FULLY ENGAGED AND THEY HAVE IN THEM THE MOST DISADVANTAGED CITY RESIDENCE AND THEY UH ARE BEING DISPLACED, AND THEY DESERVE TO LIVE IN THE CITY, AND THEY'RE PART OF THE FABRIC AND PATCHWORK QUILT THAT MAKES UP DURHAM. UM, THERE ARE NO STATED MEASURABLE GOALS. THIS BOTHERS ME BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE SUCCEEDING.
THE STAFF HAS ENGAGED WITH THE INC TO HELP THEM WORK THROUGH THE MEASURE MS AND WHAT WOULD BE COLLECTED BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WOULD KNOW HOW TO DO THAT EITHER. PARTICULARLY IF TH STAFF DOESN'T KNOW. THE STAFF HAS WORKED VERY HARD. THEY HAVE DONE EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO DELIVER WHAT WAS ASKED OF THEM. UM, BUT THEY WANT IT OFF THEIR PLATES. THEY'RE STARTING ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THEY HAVE A LOT T DO. THEY THUGHT THEY WERE GING TO BE FINISHED WITH THIS BY NOW, BUT MOST PEOPLE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING BECAUSE IT'S STILL NOT BEING CALLED WHAT IT IS, WHICH IS A REZONING. THE WORD AFFORDABLE SHOULD BE DROPPED FROM ALL PRESENTATIONS AND ASSOCIATIONS FROM THIS INITIATIVES. IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE, NO WAY THIS INITIATIVE IS GOING TO MEET DEMAND AND BE ABLE TO CREATE AFFORDABILITY, AND IT IS DECEPTIVE AND DISINGENUOUS TO SUGGEST SIT A BENEFIT. — SUGGEST IT IS A BENEFIT. SO YOU PROBABLY WANT TO KNOW, UM, WHY DO WE NEED 30 MORE DAYS AND I'M GOING TO GO OVER SOME POINTS THAT I THINK WOULD MAKE THE INITIATIVE STRONGER AND MORE EFFECTIVE.
YOU CAN FOLLOW ALONG BY NUMBER. NUMBER ONE, STAKEHOLDER PANEL. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER TO ADOFRP FLISH 30 DAYS. ACCOMPLISH 30 DAYS. REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE PETITIONER PANEL AND ALL OVER STAKEHOLDS WHICH INCLUDE CITIZENS, RESIDENCE FROM A VARIETY OF NEIGHBORHOODS, ORGANIZATIONS INVESTED IN KEEPING DURHAM A LIVABLE AND DESIRABLE CITY INCLUDING PRESERVATION DURHAM, COALITION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND PUBLIC TRANSIT, PEOPLE'S AUH LICENSE, DOWNTOWN DURHAM, DUKE, AND SO MANY I CAN'T NAME NOW AND WHAT I'M HOPING IS THAT WE CAN FIND PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN NEIGHBORHOODS AND THEY ARE INVOLVED IN ONE OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS BECAUSE IF WE HAD ONE PERSON FROM EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD AND ONE PERSON FROM EVERY ORGANIZATION I THINK IT'D BE A HUNDRED OR SOMETHING PEOPLE, BUT I REALLY FEEL THAT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT THING TO HAVE ALL STAKEHOLDERS AT THE SAME TABLE DISCUSSING IT. SO, UM, I WOULD LIKE THE ASK THAT ANYONE WHO SUPPORT THIS IS IDEA STAND UP SILENTLY. THE STAKEHOLDER PANEL. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, GOALS AND MEASURABLE THINGS HAVE NOT BEEN DEFINED.
I UH THINK WE NEED TO DO THAT BEFORE IT HITS THE POLITICAL PROCESS WHICH I THE CITY COUNCIL. SO WE NEED TO DECIDE WHAT WILL BE MEASURED, UM, AT WHAT INTERVAL WILL IT BE MEASURED? WILL IT BE MEASURED AT SIX MONTHS, 12 MONTHS, 12 MONTHS AFTER THAT? WE NEED TO DECIDE WHO WILL PERFORM THE ASSESSMENT. STAFF HAD SUGGESTED THEY AWE pWT THEY UH DO HAVE A LOT ON THEIR PLATE AND I'M WONDERING IF WE COULD FIND A GRANT THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO PAY AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT TO HELP US FORM PLAIT LATHE OBJECTIVES THAT ARE MEASURABLE, OR MAYBE WE COULD FIND A CITY UH PLANNING ACADEMIC ORGANIZATION THAT NEEDS A PROJECT AND MAYBE THEN THEY WOULD DO THE ACTUAL WORK AND REPORT IT TO THE STAFF. AND WHERE WOULD THESE DIFFERENT MEASUREMENTS BE? WHAT AREAS DO THEY APPLY TO? SO COULD THERE BE CAPS FOR STREETS ON NEIGHBORHOODS IF IT DOESN'T GO THE WAY WE THOUGHT? WE NEED TO PULL IT BACK. AND THEN WHAT PROCESS ARE WE GOING TO USE IF, IN FACT, THROUGH THE MEASUREMENTS WE DETERMINE THAT WE NEED TO EITHER SLOW IT DOWN OR SPEED IT UP OR CHANGE TEXT TO MAKE IT CLEARER? SO IF YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF ESTABLISHING GOALS AND MEASUREMENTEDS PRIOR TO IT GOING TO CITY COUNCIL, WOULD YOU PLEASE STAND SILENTLY? THANK YOU.
CURRENT LESS DENSE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT KEEPING THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE DOWNTOWN NEIGHBORHOODS, SO IN FILL STANDARDS IS PROMISING BUT NOT FINISHED. DOWNTOWN DURHAM IS KNOWN FOR ITS MATURE CANOPY OF TREES. THE SIDEWALKS, THOUGH THERE ARE NOT AS MANY AS I WOULD LIKE, AN GARAGES ARE AT THE BACK OF THE HOMES. THIS HOME IS A RENOVATION. THE PRODUCT WILL BE THREE TIMES THE SIZE OF THE ORIGINAL HOME WHICH IS STILL IN THRE. YOU CAN BARELY SEE THE FRONT DOOR AND YOU CAN ONLY SEE IT BECAUSE GARAGE HAS NOT BEEN SEE THE RANCH HOUSE TO ITS RELY- RIGHT, WHICH IS GRAY. THIS, I THINK IS A SNOUT HOUSE STYLE AND I THINK SIT A DUPLEX AND YOU CAN SEE THAT IT DWARFS THE HOUSE TO ITS RIGHT AND IT IS SUBSTANTIALLY LARGER THAN THE HOUSE THAT WAS TAKEN DOWN.
IN THIS PICTURE ON THE RIGHT, UM, IS A THINK UH A BETTER INFILL EXAMPLE. IT IS BIGGER THAN THE HOUSE TO ITS LEFT BUT THIS PARTICULAR HOME OWNER WANTED TO BUILD A MODERN HOUSE AND REALIZED THAT IT WOULDN'T FIT IN, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THEY WANTED TO LIVE, SO THEY CREATED ONE ARCHITECTURAL STYLES OF THE – NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S VERY MODERN ON THE INSIDE. THEN THERE IS MY WORST NIGHTMARE. UM, SO WHAT WE NEED IS WE NEED TO SETTLE ON HOW EXACTLY WE'RE GOING TO DECIDE WHAT THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT WOULD BE. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A VERY CLEAR DEFINITION OF THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IS ADEQUATE. AND HOW HOMES FIT IN WIH OTHER HOMES. WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT SETBACKS ARE HONORED AND THAT ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL IS ARTICULATED. SO FOR ITEM NUMBER THREE, WOULD ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD SUPPORT REVIEWING AND REFINING THE INFILL STANDARDS PLEASE STAND SILENTLY? THANK YOU. NOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO DUPLEXES. DUPLEXES ARE OFTEN AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY AND I WAS VERY IT DOES COME FROM THE DURHAM NEIGH NEIGHBORHOOD SITE WHICH IS PART OF THE DURHAMNC.GOV SITE.
I WAS SURPRISED TO LEARN URBAN TIER IS ABOUT 75% RENTAL NAP SURPRISES ME — THAT SURPRISES ME BECAUSE MY AREA I THOUGHT WAS MORE HOME OWNERS THAN RENTALS BUT EVEN THE AREA COLORING IN THIS MAP SHOWS THAT THERE ARE MORE RENTALS THAN THRE ARE HOME OWNERS AND THAT'S SURPRISED ME E SO IT'S ABOUT 75%. SOME OF IT, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, OVER WHERE DUKE IS, IT'S DARK BLUE AND THOSE ARE RENTALS AND THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE BUT I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW HIGH IT WAS. WHEN YOU HAVE A COMBHAUNTY FILLED WITH TENANTS, SOMETIMES THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT EMOTIONALLY INVESTED IN BEING A NEIGHBOR. THEY MAY NOT PARTICIPATE IN COMMUNITY ACTIVITIES AS MUCH AS OWNERS DO AND TENANTS THINK THEIR OPINIONS DON'T MATTER AND I'M WONDERING IF THAT'S THE REASON WE'VE HAD TROUBLE GETTING ENGAGEMENT WITH THESE NEIGHBORHOODS; BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY RENTERS, MAYBE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY DON'T HELP AND THEY DON'T GO TO COMMUNITY EVENTS.
FOR B I TALK MORE ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT RESIDENCE — THAT IS OWNERS AND TENANTS — NEED TO FEEL LIKE THEY BELONG. EVERYONE HAS A LEGITIMATE REASON TO BE HERE AND THEY SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO BE HERE. WE WANT TO FOSTER HOMEOWNERSHIP. LOOK AT THE PRINCIPLE OF HABITAT AND HOW IMPORTANT IT IS AND HOW A FAMILY BECOMES SORT OF LIKE A PLATFORM TO LAUNCH AT WHEN THEY ARE ABLE TO OWN A HOME.
FOUR C IS DUPLEXES AND A CONCERN ABOUT TEARDOWN. SO WILL ALL SMALL HOUSES BE TORN DOWN AND DUPLEXES REPLACE THEM? ONE OF THE CONCERNS IS THAT I'M TOLD THAT AN INVESTOR VERSUS MAYBE A HOMEOWNER THAT AN INVESTOR WILL SY SU THAT IF YOU CONSTRUCT A DUPLEX AND EVEN THOUGH IT COSTS MORE TO CONSTRUCT TWO DIFFERENT KITCHENS AT THE ONSET, THAT IF YOU, IN FACT, RENT IT OUT OVER TIME YOU RECOUP THAT MONEY. THEN THERE'S THE WHOLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND THING. DO WE REALLY KNOW IF THE CURRENT RESIDENCE OF DURHAM WANT TO LIVE IN DUPLEXES? DO WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE NEWCOMERS THAT ARE COMING WANT TO LIVE IN DUPLEXES? DO WE KNOW IF DEVELOPERS WANT TO BUILD THEM? I DON'T KNOW. WILL WE TEAR DOWN ALL THE SMALL HOMES AND HAVE NO STARTER HOMES FOR THE MY LIN MILLENNIALS WHEN THEY DECIDE THEY WANT HOMES OR PROVIDE OPTIONS FOR OLDER FOLKS WHEN THEY WANT TO DOWNSIZE? SO I THINK THERE'S A LARGE FOCUS ON DUPLEXES WITHIN THE EHC, AND I UH THINK IT NEEDS TO BE REEVALUATED IN LIGHT OF THE ISSUE ABOUT TENANTS AND BUILDING COMMUNITY, AND IF ANYONE ELSE AGREES THAT WE NEED TO REEVALUATE THE DESIRABILITY OF DUPLEXES, WOULD YOU PLEASE STAND? THANK YOU.
BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT DUPLEXES, I'VE GROWN TO HAVE A PREFERENCE TO ADUs WHICH I WAS ORIGINALLY NOT LIKING FOR A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT RANDY SAID, UH, THE STAFF DID AN ONLINE SURVEY OF THE CITY LAST SUMMER, AND THIS IS THE SECTION ABOUT ADUs. NOTICE THAT THE LARGEST BLUE BAR IS, I THINK IT WOULD BE TOO EXPENSIVE, AND THE NEXT BAR DOWN IS I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO START IN THE PROCESS. THEN YOU A COUPLE, NOT INTERESTED, DON'T WANT TO BE A LANDLORD. THEN THERE'S, I WOULD CONSIDER IT IF THERE WAS AN INCENTIVE PROGRAM. THEN THERE'S A PERSON WHO'S THE RENTER AN DOESN'T THINK THEY MATTER, I'M NOT A PROPERTY OWNER, SO I UH GUESS THEY DON'T KNOW THEY UH CAN HAVE AN OPINION.
THEN THE LAST IS, I UH HAD NO IDEA IT WAS AN OPTION. WHEN I FILLED OUT THE SURVEY, THAT WAS THE OPTION I CHOSE. I'VE BECOME BETTER EDUCATED ABOUT THAT NOW. SO HAVE WE FULLY EXPLORED GIVING PEOPLE HELP ABOUT FINANCING AND HOW TO GO AHEAD BUILDING AN ADU? COULD THE CITY HELP PEOPLE WITH FINANCING OR WORK WITH A LENDER TO HELP WITH FINANCING? MIGHT THERE BE PLANS AVAILABLE, SORT OF OFF THE SHELF, FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF ADUs THAT REDUCES THE DESIGN COST? AND WOULD MANUFACTURED TINY HOUSES WILL ELIGIBLE? YOU SHOULD LOOK ON AMAZON. YOU CAN BUY UH A TINY HOUSE ON AMAZON. IT COMES IN PIECES. SO WOULD ANYONE WO FAVORS LOOKING AT ADVANCING AN ADU PROGRAM PLEASE STAND.
>> [INDISCERNIBLE]. >> GOOD. I ITEM SIX, SMALL LOTS. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT SMALL LOTS OWNED BY HABITAT AND CASA CAN'T BE BUILT ON RIHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE UDO, SO IN THE MARCH TEXT, I BELIEVE THAT IT SAYS THAT SMLL LOTS COULD HAVE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME OR DUPLEX, BUT ADUs WERE RULED OUT AND I THINK THAT IT MIGHT BE BETTER LIVING SPACE TO ACTUALLY UH HAVE A HOUSE, A MAIN HOUSE AND AN ADU AND THAT THAT MIGHT BE A BETTER ENVIRONMENT LIVING SPACE THAN TWO DUPLEXES ON A SMALL LOT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF THAT WOULD WORK. IF ANYONE WOULD SUPPORT LOOKING AT THAT OPTION, CAN YOU STAND? AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE IS SOME AGREEMENT AND SOME NOT AGREEMENT, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. ITEM SEVEN — THIS IS MY LAST ITEM. WE ARE STEWARDS OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND OUR CITY AND OUR COUNTRY AND OUR PLANET. THE OLDER HOMES IN THE URBAN TIER ARE THE SOUL AN BONES OF DURHAM AND ITS HISTORY. WE NEED TO PROTECT THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS SO THAT WE DO NOT LOSE ALL SENSE OF HISTORY.
WE CAN INCREASE DENSITY IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS BUT WE MUST DO IT CAREFULLY WITH INFILL STANDARDS. I UH THINK TAT THE NATIONAL AND LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS SHOULD BE LEFT OUT OF IT NOW TO GIVE THEM TIME TO WRITE DESIGN GUIDELINES. AND BY THE WAY, YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW THIS, BUT A LOT OF THOSE HISTORIC DISTRICTS HAVE BOUNDARIES WHICH ARE SMALLER THAN THE NEIGHBORHOOD KNOWN BY THAT NAME. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, I LIVE IN TRINITY PARK, BUT I DON'T LIVE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THERE ARE A LOT OF THESE DISTRICTS. I AM NOT AN EXPERT ABOUT THEM, UNFORTUNATELY I, I WILL BE FOLLOWED BY SOMEONE WHO IS. THERE ARE MANY OF THEM AND THEY CROSS GEOGRAPHIC AND SOCIO ECONOMIC TERRITORY. HERE'S ONLY A FEW OF THEM. THEY'RE SPRINKLED ALL OVER THE CITY. SOME I AFFLUENT NEIGHBORHOODS AND SOME NOT.
I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE PRIORITIZE THEM. IF ANYONE HERE FEELS THAT WE NEED TO GIVE SPECIAL RECOGNITION, SPECIAL TREATMENT, TO HISTORIC DISTRICTS, PLEASE STAND. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. IN CONCLUSION, I WANT TO SAY FROM MY OWN POINT OF VIEW THAT THE INITIATIVE STILL HAS GREAT POTENTIAL. I DO BELIEVE WE CAN FIND COMPROMISES. I UH AM CONCERNED ABOUT DISPLACEMENT AND ABOUT THE LACK OF AFFORDABILITY, BUT THIS INITIATIVE IS NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY DENT IN THE ISSUE OF AFFORDABILITY, AND WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THAT IN A DIFFERENT PROGRAM.
I HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONSIDER ALL THIS SERIOUSLY BEFORE YOU VOTE AND I'D LIKE TO SAY, LET'S BE DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER CITY UHS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR SOUL TO PROGRESS. THEY UH HAVE LOST THEIR TREES AND THEIR AIR QUALITY. THEY HAVE LOST THE ABILITY TO MOVE IN THEIR CAR DOWN THE STREET, AND THEY HAVE LOST THE ABILITY TO KNOW THEIR NEIGHBORS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU. WE WILL MOVE ON WITH OUR REGULARLY-SCHEDULED PUBLIC HEARING. WHAT WE'VE DONE, I KNOW A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE COME SINCE WE STARTED THIS PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU WOULD LIKE THE SPEAK TONIGHT, HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO SIGN UP, WE DID PUT AN ADDITIONAL SIGNUP SHEET SO YOU CAN SIGN UP. WE VOTED TO ALLOW THREE MINUTES PER SPEAKER THIS EVENING. NEXT ON OUR LIST IS MAGGIE, 914 ANGLEWOOD AVENUE. THEN ELLEN PLUS. >> SERGEANT, 914 ENG LWOOD AND I CEDE MY MINUTES TO ELLEN PLUS. >> THANK YOU. >> ELLEN PLUS, 706 EAST FOREST HILLS BOULEVARD IN DURHAM.
DURHAM RESIDENT SIX '72, 20 YEARS IN THE SAME HOUSE. I'M NOT AS ORGANIZED AS MY PREDECESSOR. LARGELY GOING TO BE READING. THIS IS DURHAM'S SESQUICENTENNIAL ANNIVERSARY YEAR AND WE SHOULD BE CELEBRATING ITS HISTORY AND PRACTICING TOP-NOTCH CULTURAL STEWARDSHIP. 2019 IS RISKY YEAR FOR DURHAM'S NATIONAL AND LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THE EHC INITIATIVE DEFIES ALL URBAN TIER NEIGHBORHOODS, HISTORIC AND NON-HISTORIC, WITH A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL APPROACH ATTRACTIVE TO DEVELOPERS UH, INCENTIVIZE TEARDOWNS AND ERODE DISTRICTS. THE TEXT DOES NOT REFLECT CONSIDERATION OF THE UNIQUE QUILT THAT IS DURHAM'S ASSEMBLY OF RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. NATIONAL AND LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS EXIST BECAUSE OF PROLONGED AND SUSTAINED COMMUNITY EFFORTS TO RETAIN AND PRESERVE THE SOUL OF THE COMMUNITY OVER MANY DECADES. THEY CANNOT BE PREREPLACED ONCE BROKEN. OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE NOT JUST IMPORTANT TO DURHAM, THEY ARE FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED THROUGH U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR AND NATIONAL PARKS SERVICE. STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA IS ACTIVELY INVESTED IN THEM AND IN THEIR PRESERVATION THROUGH THE HISTORIC REHABILITATION TAX CREDIT PROGRAM. ALTHOUGH NORTH CAROLINA SESSION LAW 201586 APPEARS TO PROVIDE P FOR EQUAL PROTECTIONS FOR NATIONAL AND LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS, DURHAM'S NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE NOT CURRENTLY PROTECTED UNDER ITS UDO EVEN THOUGH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, CHAPTER 5, SECTION 1, QUOTE, PROVIDES FOR THE IDENTIFICATION, PROTECTION, AND PROMOTION OF HISTORIC DISTRICT — RESOURCES, EXCUSE ME. CURRENTLY UH, HISTORIC PROPERTY LOCATED WITHIN ONE OF DURHAM'S NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS RECEIVES NO DELAY OR UNIQUE CONSIDERATIONS WHEN A DEMOLITION PERMIT IS REQUESTED, AND IT CAN BE TORN DOWN THE DAY AFTER THAT PERMIT IS ISSUED. IT'S HAPPENED IN MY AREA WHERE I LIVE ONLY LAST MONTH. WE LOST A CERTIFIED CONTRIBUTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE SHORTLY, TWO DAYS AFTER PERMIT WAS ISSUED. BY-RIGHT POWERS OF THE WRITTEN INTO EHC WILL MULTIPLY DEMOLITIONS REQUESTS AND POSE THREAT TO HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND DISTRICTS. LIKELY WILL NOT BE CLAWED BACK ONCE GIVEN. IT'S NOT REASONABLE FOR HISTORIC DISTRICTS TO BE A CANARY IN AN EXPERIMENTAL COAL MINE.
THE LACK OF PROPER ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDY ASSESSING THE SPECIFIC RISKS POSED TO BOTH ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCES AND HISTORIC RESOURCES IS DEEPLY CONCERNING. THE UNUSUAL SPEED OF THESE DENSIFICATION INITIATIVE AND THE FACT IT IS OCCURRING OUTSIDE OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN REWRITE THROTTLES A MORE FULL CONVERSATION ON WHAT HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN DURHAM COULD BE. VOICES IN SUCH CONVERSATIONS COULD PERHAPS ACTUALLY INVOLVE THE RESIDENCE OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS LIKE PRESERVATION DURHAM. THE SWIFTLY-DRAWN BY-RIGHT POWERS BUILT INTO EHC RISK ENSURING THAT FOR HISTORIC DISTRICT DAMAGE MAY UH BE DONE BEFORE THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEGUN. IF WE DO NOT HAVE IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE HISTORIC DISTRICTS WE CONCERN S- TURN STABILITY AND FUTURE — EXCUSE ME — TO THE PERMANENT STAMP OF DEVELOPERS AND OTHERS WHO PROFIT FANLLY. A NUMBER WHO SPOKE IN MARCH, SOME ARE HERE THIS EVENING. WE REQUEST DURHAM'S IR YOU ARE REPLACEMENT URBAN AND HISTORIC DISTRICT WHICH ARE ESTABLISHED HARD BOUNDARIES ON THE MAP BE REMOVED FROM THE EH INITIATIVE SO THAT SUCH A BALANCED, ROBUST, AROUND CRUCIAL CONVERSATION MAY BEGIN TO EVOLVE AS DURHAM MOVES TOWARD WORK ON CAMP HEN SIEVE PLAN REWRITE.
THANK YOU FOR THIS STUDENT TO — OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. [APPLAUSE] >> SO WE DO HAVE RURALS OF DECORUM. WE ASK YOU NOT CLAP WHEN PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING. >> COULD YOU UH CLARIFY IF THAT WAS FOR O AGAINST THE PROPOSAL? >> I'M PRETTY SURE THAT WAS AGAINST. [LAUGHTER] >> OKAY. LINDA WILSON IS NEXT AND THEN BRUCE KUREN.
LINDA WILSON HERE? SHE'S NOT HERE, OKAY. SHE ALSO DIDN'T ACKNOWLEDGE IF SHE WAS FOR OR AGAINST SO NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY SHE PROBABLY DIDN'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT. WE'LL MOVE ON TO BURS KURN THEN TOM WILEY. >> THANK YOU. BURS KURN 800 FOSTER STREET IN OLD NORTH DURHAM. NO DOUBT THAT THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS SUPPORT THE PROPOSED PLAN HAS HAVE THE BEST ETHICAL AND MORAL MOTIVATIONS BEHIND THEIR WISH TO CREATE HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES FOR MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY WHO CANNOT PRESENTLY UH AFFORD THEM NEVERTHELESS I WAS TO ADDRESS SOME SITUATIONS. I LOOK AT THIS PLAN AS HOUSING EQUIVALENT OF DISREGARDING THE FACT LIKE THOSE WHO IGNORED CLIMATE CHANGE. ONE NANT OF BASIC ECONOMIC THEORY SUPPORTING THIS PLAN AS EFFECTIVE WAY TO ACHIEVE COMMUNITY OBJECTIVES. PREVIOUS SPEAKER SID IT HASN'T WORKED IN A NUMBER OF CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY. ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU INSTITUTED THIS PROPOSED PLAN IN NEBRASKA, IOWA, ARKANSAS OR KANSAS, IT WOULD WORK GREAT.
YOU COULD SUPPLY, DEMAND, AND PRICE WITH THE WAVE OF YOUR HAND BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO LIVE THERE. ON THE OTHER HAND, IT WON'T WORK IN OREGON, TEXAS, BOLDER, COLORADO, ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA OR DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA, BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS TO LIVE THERE. WHAT THE FORCES WILL DO IS OVERWHEEM OR ATTEMPT CREATE — THERE'S NO WAY TO CREATE SUPPLY THAT WILL PUT A DENT IN THE INFINITE DEMAND FOR HOUSING IN THIS MARKET. ONE EFECTIVE WAY TO CREATE AND MAINTAIN AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND OVER 50 YEARS.EEN DOING IT FOR – CONTROL PRICES IN A SELECTED MARKET SEGMENTS FOR POPULATIONS YOU WANT TO SERVE. IF YOU WANT A AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THIS MARKET, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEGISLATE IT. THE MARKET'S NOT GOING TO HAND IT TO YOU AND YIELD THE AMBULANCE OF MY 21 MINUTES. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. TOM WILEY. >> TOM WILEY, 1405 FORCE FIELD. CEDE TIME TO ELLEN PLUS SINCE SHE'S SPOKEN, NOTHING TO SAY.
>> THANK YOU. IE DELL OR TEASE THEN CASEY COLLINS. IDEAL ORTIZ. >> [LOW AUDIO]. >> SO JUST AGAIN, A REMINDER IF YOU'VE NOT SIGNED UP TO SPAK AND YO WOULD LIE TO SPEAK, THERE IS A SIGNUP SHEET ON MY LEFT ON THE TABLE, PLEASE SIGN UP AND WELL GET TO YOU. >> [INDISCERNIBLE]. WEST MAIN STREET IN DURHAM, YIELD MY TIME I I IDEAL ORTIZ. >> THANK YOU. >> IE DELL ORTIZ AND CONTEXT I WANT TO SHARE ABOUT MYSELF THAT I'VE LIVED AT 1808 BELL STREET IN OLD DURHAM FOR LAST 16 YEARS.
I LOVINGLY RENOVATED MY HOME WITH SUPPORT OF EVIL DEVELOPER, TIFFANY DEVELOPER PRACTITIONER FOR EHC. IN HISTORIC DISTRICT OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD AN MY HOME AS WON A PINE AWARD FROM PRESERVATION DURHAM ORGANIZATION. I'VE BEEN A LANDLORD THAT CONSISTENTLY UH RENTS HOUSES AT WELL YOU AREN'T CURRENT MARKET RATES AND BEEN DOING THAT SINCE MOVED INTO THE HOUSE. CURRENTLY THE CHAIR OF THE NORTHEAST CENTRAL DURHAM LEADERSHIP COUNCIL AND I HAVE BEEN A WELL KNOWN FIERCE RESIDENT ADVOCATE FOR VARIETY OF CONCERNS THAT PLAGUE MY COMMUNITY AND VARIOUS OTHER LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES ACROSS DURHAM. I WANT TO EXPRESS A NOTE OF GRATITUDE FOR MANY COMMUNITY MEMBERS FROM NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE NOT CONSIDERED VULNERABLE WHO SPOKE ON BEHALF OF VULNERABLE NEIGHBORHOODS AT THE LAST HEARING. YOU ASK THAT WE BE ALLOWED FOR MORE TIME AND FOR THAT I THANK YOU. FOR THE DURHAM RESIDENCE COULD UNDERSTAND EHC AND DECIDE WHAT THEY THINK OF IT FOR THEMSELVES. OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST TWO MONTHS, I HAVE ACTUALLY DILIGENTLY USED THAT TIME TO HAVE OVERTWO DOZEN CONVERSATIONS WITH LOW INCOME RESIDENCE AND GROUPS THAT REPRESENT THEM.
FAMILIES MOVING FORWARD, COMMUNITY [INDISCERNIBLE] FUND, NORTHEAST CENTRAL DURHAM LEADERSHIP COUNCIL, [INDISCERNIBLE] NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, BLACK ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE WHICH INCLUDING QUITE A FEW BLACK DEVELOPERS BY UH THE WAY, NOT ALL WHITE AND NOT ALL WEALTHY AND SOME HERE TONIGHT. UM, VARIOUS REALTORS AND CONTRACTORS THAT DO WORK FOR LOW TO MODERATE INCOME FAMILIES ESPECIALLY UH IN MY COMMUNITY. ALSO VISITED QUITE A FEW OF THE COALITION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING MEETINGS AND THESE ARE JUST A FEW.
EVEN CURRENTLY, ON COMMITTEE RIGHT NOW FOR MEASURING THE IMPACTS OF ZONING [INDISCERNIBLE] NORTH CAROLINA ABOUT THE ANNUAL HOUSING METRICS NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS WORK, SO THAT WORK IS ABREAST, IT'S HAPPENING, NOT MYSTERIOUS AS SEVERAL FOLKS OF THE COMMUNE TRI A PART OF THAT TABLE. THE OVERALL I'VE BEEN ABLE TO SYNTHESIZE IS EHC HAS PRESENTED WAS TOO BIG A SET OF CHANGES TO ABSORB AT ONE TIME. TRYING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS THE CRAFTER INSIDE OF ME KEEPS SAYING, INCH BY INCH, SUS A CINCH AND YARD BY YARD IS MUCH TOO HARD. TRYING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO EAT THE ENTIRE ELEPHANT IN ONE BITE. WE CAN MAKE INCREMENTAL CHANGES AND STEPS WITH WHERE COMMUNITY UH IS READY TO GO.
INCREMENTAL CHANGES TO SUPPORT DENSITY AND BETTER LAND USE ALLOW FOR COMMUNITIES TO BE BROUGHT ALONG WITH FULL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS HAPPENING AND ALSO ALLOWS FOR PIVOTS IN THE EVENT OF UNINTENDED DAMAGE. LET'S WORK ON THINGS IN MANAGEABLE CHUNKS. TO THAT END, MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY NEGATIVELY IMPACT BY HOUSING NEEDS WOULD LOVE TO SEE STABILIZING RESOURCES BEFORE UNKOSHGING TOO MANY CHANGES ON DENSITY.
UNCORKING TOO MANY CHANGES. WAYS TO PROMOTE MORE PRIVATE LANDLORDS TAKING SECTION EIGHT VOUCHERS. WE KNOW THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS ARE NOT PART OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S WORK. WHAT I UH HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LEARN — WHAT HAVE I BEEN ABLE TO LEARN THAT PEOPLE WOULD SUPPORT MOVING FORWARD THAT'S PART OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S WORK? THESE ARE FOUR THINGS I'M GOING TO LIST. AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK ADVOCACY OF WEALTHIER COMMUNITIES FOR THE DECIDE UPON THESE FOUR-POINTS.O- I HOPE YOU'LL SUPPORT WHAT THAT TIME AS YIELDED. BECAUSE OF THAT TIME WE ARRIVED AS MORE CLEAR SYNTHESIS. PEOPLE FEEL GOOD ABOUT MOVING FORWARD WITH: ONE, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ONLY IN URBAN TIER RESIDENTIAL ZONINGS BECAUSE ALL LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS ALREADY HAVE ZONING FOR DUPLEXES BY RIGHT. LET'S MAKE THAT THE CASE THROUGHOUT THE URBAN TIER.
TWO, CHANGING THE NUMBER OF ALLOWED NON-RELATED PEOPLE TO LIVE IN A HOUSE FROM THREE TO FIVE PEOPLE. WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO LEGISLATE WHAT FAMILY LOOKS LIKE AND I THINK WE KNOW DURHAM IS A AT A PLACE WHERE WE DEFINE THINGS DIFFERENTLY. THIS IS ONE ZONING CHANGE THAT ALLOWS FOR DENSITY WITHOUT DEVELOPERS BEING INVOLVED. IRONIC AND NO COST. THREE, MAKE ADUs UP TO 800 SQUARE FEET POSSIBLE BY RIGHT. STOP DISCRIMINATING OF LITTLE HOUSES. FOUR, DRVEWAY FOR FLAG LOTS THAT ARE 12 FEET INSTEAD OF 20. THIS HOPEFULLY LETS MORE PEOPLE UTILIZE THE LAND THEY ALREADY HAVE WITHOUT TEARING DOWN A HOUSE FOR TRIVIAL RULE ABOUT DRIVEWAYS. LET'S CALL THIS A SUPER SKINNY EHC THAT IS POWERFUL BECAUSE IT'S EASY TO UNDERSTAND. PART OF WHAT EQUITY REQUIRES IS FOR INFORMATION THAT IS CLEAR AND OPTIONALABLE BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC SO IT ISN'T JUST BIG DEVELOPER WHO AFFORD CODE POLICY. I HOPE ALL OF US VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES WILL SUPPORT EHC LIGHT AND THEN TAKE ALL THE CONVERSATIONS. AFFORDABILITY REQUIRES PLURAL RALTY OF RESOURCES AND — [INDISCERNIBLE]. DURHAM IS NOT HOUSES, IT'S ITS PEOPLE.
>> THANK YOU. STACY COLLINS AND THEN STACY MURPHY. >> CASEY COLLINS, LIVE AT 2128 SUNSET AVENUE; HOWEVER, I UH AM NOT HERE ON BEHALF OF MYSELF BUT RATHER ON BEHALF OF THE DURHAM [INDISCERNIBLE] AFFAIRS BOARD SO MY OPINION ARE OF THAT GROUP AN MY COLLEAGUES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING ON HERE. EAB KNOWS IT'S NOT SO EASY. WE CERTAINLY THANK CITY STAFF AND ALL THE CONSTITUENTS AND RESIDENCE OF DURHAM THAT HAVE COME TO VISIT US, TOO. BROADLY SPEAKING, UM, THE EAB IS SUPPORTIVE WITH CAVEATS OF THE PROPOSED EHC CHANGES. I'LL DESCRIBE THOSE CAVEATS IN A MINUTE. BUT WE DON'T PRETEND LIE WE CAN FORESEE ALL THE CONSEQUENCES THAT MAY COME OUT OF THESE PROPOSED CHANGES.
WE DO, HOWEVER, KNOW FROM BOH PRACTICE AND STUDY THAT THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT BENEFITS TO FOR THE ENVIRONMENT TO IMPROVING AN INCREASING DENSITY, PARTICULARLY IN URBAN COMMUNITIES THAT RELATE TO TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS, THAT RELATE TO STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, UM, AND THAT RELATE TO OVERALL LOWER GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS THAT AFFECT OUR ENVIRONMENT AND THE AIR QUALITY THAT ALL OF OUR CITIZENS BREATHE. SO WITH THAT CONTEXT IN MIND, ALL SHARE THAT WE SUPPORT EHC PROVISIONS THAT ARE INTENDED TO PROVIDE PROTECTION OF URBAN TREE CANOPY.
WE SUPPORT TREE AND LANDSCAPE REVISION TEXT AMENDMENTS WHICH CERTAINLY INCLUDE CANOPY PROTECTION PROVISIONS. WE SUPPORT LIMITATION OF DRIVEWAY WIDTH AND RIBBON DRIVEWAYS AND THE BALL AN DOWNSPOUT CONNECTIONS WITH MROET VEGAS TO REDUCE IMPEFRTS SURFACE. OPPOSE ADDITION OF HEIGHT LIMITATIONS GIVEN THE GOAL IS TO INCREASE FLEXIBILITY OF HOUSING OPTIONS AND DENSITY. OPPOSE ANY PROVISION THAT BARS ADUs FROM LOTS CONTAINING DUPLEXES GIVEN, AGAIN, FLEXIBILITY OF OPTIONS OF THIS TYPE OF CONFIGURATION WOULD PROVIDE TO DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AND T PROPERTY OWNERS.
THEN WE ADDITIONALLY UH SUPPORT THE INCREASE IN SIZE OF THE ALLOWABLE ADU. HOWEVER, WE DO OPPOSE ANY PROPOSAL TO CHANGE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND SO WE ENCOURAGE PLANNING COMMISSION TO REVISIT THESE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE URBAN TIER. ON THE GROUNDS OF THAT IS BOTH EXPENSIVE TO BUILD ADDITIONAL PARKING, INCREASES IMPERVIOUS SURFACE AND CERTAINLY UH DOES NOT MOTIVATE ANY UH PARADIGM SHIFT IN HOW PEOPLE MOVE AROUND OUR CITY. I'LL SA TOO THAT WHILE I OFFER MY COMMENTS TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF EAB, THERE IS CON THAEKS I TOO AM A DURHAM RESIDENT THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED BY THIS AND SO I CAN SHARE PERSONALITILY — >> THANK YOU. STACY MURPHY AND THEN SASHA BERGHOUSEEN. >> STACY MURPHY, 1014 DEMIRIUS STREET IN TRINITY PARK. [INDISCERNIBLE] EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES, SUB COMMITTEE WITH THAT. ALSO HAVE A BUSINESS, HISTORIC PRESERVATION, RENOVATE OLD HOUSES WITHIN URBAN TIER. LANDLORD OF A HANDFUL OF PROPERTY THAT ARE ALL WITHIN URBAN TIER. PASSIONATE ADVOCATE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND WORK WITH HABITAT FOR HUMANITY AS A VOLUNTEER, AS A FINANCIAL DONOR AND BEEN WORKING WITH THEM ON A PROPOSAL TO CREATE AN A ADU PARTNERSHIP TO HELP THEM, UM, WITH THEIR CRUSHING WAIT LIST OF INDIVIDUALS WAITING FOR HABITAT HOMES.
NOT HERE ON BEHALF OF HABITAT. THEY BUILD ABOUT 25-26 HOMES A YEAR. THEY HAVE A WAITING LIST THAT'S OVER A THOUSAND FAMILIES WAITING FOR HOMES. IN AN EFFORT TO HELP PARTNER WITH THESE FAMILIES ON THEIR PATH TO HOME OWNER SIP THEY HAVE TO LIVE IN RENTAL HOUSING IN THE INTERIM. THERE ARE A LOT OF VERY INVOLVED, VERY COMMITTED PRIVATE HOME OWNERS THAT ARE READY TO BUILD ADUs ON THEIR LOTS BUT THE PROVISIONS IN THEIR THIS NEW PROPOSAL, THEY HVE TO BE LESS RESTRICTIVE. SO UNDER OPTION B, THE ORIGINAL OPTION, IT'S LESS RESTRICTIVE.
THE RESTRICTIONS ARE EASIER TO BUILD ADUs. IN THE NEW, NEW VERSION OF THE TEXT AMENDMENTS, A HEIGHT RESTRICTION OF 25 FEET WAS A ADDED, AND THE TEN-FOOT SETBACK WAS ADDED, AND THOSE ARE CRUSHING TO THE ABILITY OF PRIVATE HOMEOWNERS TO BUILD ADUs ON THIR LOTS AND MAKES IT A DEAL BREAKER FAR LOT OF PEOPLE. IF WE BELIEVE IN ADUs AND WANT PRIVATE HOME OWNERS HAVE ADUs, WE NEED TO LESSEN THOSE RESTRICTIONS A AND THAT'S OPTION B. ADUs WILL HAPPEN, NOT TALKING ABOUT BIG DEVELOPERS, TALKING ABOUT PRIVATE HOME OWNER WHO IS WANT TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION AND THERE'S A LOT OUT THERE WILLING TO DO IT BUT IT DEPENDS UPON HAVING TEXT AEMD AMENDMENT CHANGES THAT ARE PASED THAT DON'T INCREASE RESTRICTIONS ON ADUs.
THAT'S WHY I'M HERE IN SUPPORT OF OPTION B. THANK YOU. FLUSH >> THANK YOU. SASHA BERGHOUSEEN AND THEN MATT McDOW. >> SASHA BERGHOUSEEN, 2009 WEST CLUB BOULEVARD. LICENSED ARCHITECT WHO HAS PRACTICED IN DURHAM NEARLY TO DECADES. MANY PROJECTS HAVE BEEN RENOVATIONS OF HISTORIC RESIDENCES INCLUDING TAX CREDIT PRODUCTS AND PROJECTS IN DURHAM'S HISTORIC DISTRICTS. I UH HELPED CRAFT MY NEIGHBORHOODS, WATTS HOSPITAL HILLANDALE RESPONSE TO THE EHC AND WAS DISHEARTENED THAT SOME SUGGESTED MODIFICATION WERE NOT TAKEN. I SUPPORT REQUIRES BY RIGHT DUPLEXES TO PROVIDE AN AFFORDABLE UNIT, PRMITTING SMALL HOUSES ON SMALL LOTS TO HAVE AN ADU AND PROHIBITING EHC UP ZONING IN EIGHT HISTORIC DISTRICTS WHICH WERE CRAFTED WITH CONSIDERABLE INPUT AND DELIBERATION BY UH BOTH PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND THOUSANDS OF NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENCE. CONSEQUENTLY I CANNOT SUPPORT PRESENT EHC WICH I REGARD AS A GRAND EXPERIMENT. BY DIRECTOR'S OWN ADMISSION IT WAS DRAFTED THROUGH CONSULTATION WITH DEVELOPER-ONLY PANEL AND IS LIKELY TO PROVIDE HOUSING FOR NEW ARRIVAL WHO ARE MORE AFLUNS FLUENT THAN CURRENT RESIDENCE.
AT THE INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE APARTMENTS ON THE EDGE OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD ILLUSTRATE, DENSITY ALONE DOES NOT ENSURE AFFORDABILITY. EHC IS A PLAN THERE RISKS DESTROYING DECADES OF CAREFUL PLANNING TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS AND DURHAM'S CHARACTER. IT WILL NOT MAKE HOUSES MORE AFFORDABLE AND WILL INCREASE GENT FI UH CASE CHARACTER IN NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE WALLTOWN. NEW CONSTRUCTION ALSO THREATENS DESTRUCTION OF OUR BEAUTIFUL, MATURE TREE CANOPY. [INDISCERNIBLE] CONFIDENT IT WILL DO BASED UPON EVIDENCE PRESENTED AND SUPPORT FROM DEVELOPERS WHO HAVE SPOKEN IS TO GIVE THEM THE UNCHECKED ABILITY TO ENRICH THEMSELVES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR LISTENING. >> THANK YOU. MATT McDOW AND GARY GRIFFI. MATT McDOW HERE? IF NOT WE'LL MOVE TO GARY. >> GARY GRIFFI, 1008 MONTH MOUTH AVENUE SINCE EARLY 1980s. THANK YOU FOR THE TIME FOR THIS PUBLIC INPUT. I HAVE THREE BASIC POINTS I WANT TO MAKE AT THIS TIME OF THE EVENING I'M SURE THEY WILL ECHO SOME OTHER THINGS HEARD FROM PROVISION SPEAKERS. s FIRST POINT, I FULLY SUPPORT THE GOALS OF THIS EXPANDING HOUSES CHOICE AGENDA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. I SHARE THE VISION OF AN INCLUSIVE DURHAM, OF A DURHAM THAT HAS MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, MORE DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOODst, AND ALL THE OBJECTIVES THAT ARE PART OF THIS PROPOSAL, AND I THINK MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION ALSO WOULD SHARE MANY OF THOSE GOALS.
BUT THE SECOND POINT IS HAVING READ AS MUCH AS I CAN ABOUT OTHER EXPERIENCE WITH UP ZONING AND TRYING TO INCREASE HOUSING SUPPLY TO MAKE HOUSING MORE AFFORDABLE AND BRING A LOT OF THE OTHER OBJECTIVES THAT WE WOULD LIKE, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THE RECORD IS MIXED. VERY MIXED. AND IN PARTICULAR AS A NUMBER OF PEOPLE MENTIONED, IN NONE OF THE CASES I'VE SEEN HAD THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING OBJECTIVE CLEARLY BEEN MET BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH INTEREST IN MOVING INTO THE CITY'S PRICES OF THE HOUSES OFTEN GET BID UP, BUT I THINK HOUSING DENSITY IN THE URBAN AREA ITSELF IS A GOOD GOAL AND MAKING OUR NEIGHBORHOOD MORE DIVERSE IS A VERY IMPORTANT GOAL.
SO THE THIRD AND MOST IMPORTANT POINT I WOULD AT LEAST ASK THE COMMISSION IS, IF INDEED THIS PROPOSAL IS GOING TO BE PASSED OR SOMETHING LIKE IT IN THE NEAR FUTURE, WHAT PLANS ARE IN PLACE BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE CITY COUNCIL TO REVIEW THE PROGRESS IT'S MADE AFTER THIS IS PROPOSED? I REALLY ENDORSE THE POINT MADE BY AN EARLIER SPEAKER THAT WHEN WE'RE DOING A BIG CHANGE LIKE THIS, WE HAVE TO TRY UH TO STUDY THE CHANGE IN CHUNKS IN MANAGEABLE PIECES, AND MY CONCERN WOULD BE THAT ONCE THIS PASSES, THE GROUP THAT'S MOST INTERESTED IN MOVING QUICKLY WOULD BE THE DEVELOPERS AND MANY RESPONSIBLE DEVELOPERS IN DURHAM. I KNOW THEM AND I THINK THEY WILL DO A GOOD JOB, BUT DEVELOPERS HAVE A NARROWER SET OF INTERESTS THAN THE PLANNING COMMITTEE AND THE CITY COUNCIL, MORE GENERALLY ABOUT ALL THESE OTHER GOALS.
IS THERE A PROCESS BY WHICH YOU WILL BE MONITORING STEP-BY-STEP AND IN REASONABLE TIME PERIODS WHAT'S ACTUALLY UH PASSING AFTER THIS PASSES AND IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ADJUST MS? AND CAN THOSE PLANS BE MADE PUBLIC SINCE THAT WOULD MAKE EVERYBODY FEEL COMFORTABLE ABOUT BUYING INTO THE PROPOSAL. THANKS. >> THANK YOU. DAN BACH AND JOHN SWANSI. JUST A REMINDER, THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL LIST BUT WE'RE GOING TO MOVER TO THE SECOND LIST SO IF YOU'VE NOT SIGNED UP ON THE SECOND LIST YET, PLEASE DO SO. >> DAN BACH, 915 URBAN AVENUE. SUPPORT NOVEMBER DRAFT. THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE MARCH DRIVE ARE TOO COMPLEX AND RESTRICTIONS BEYOND WHAT EXISTS NOW AND I'M AGAINST IT. COMPLEXITY FAVORS CONNECTED AND MARCH DRAFT PREVENT HOUSING FROM BEING BUILT. I WOULD ALSO SUPPORT L WE HEARD A FEW SPEAKERS AGO FROM OR TIZ ALLOW DUPLEXES, 800 SQUARE FOOT ADUs, ALLOW MORE PEOPLE TO LIVE THAN IS CURRENTLY ALLOW, NARROWER DRIVEWAYS FOR FLAG LOTS. THAT'S A SIMPLE PROPOSAL — CAN YOU HEAR ME? THAT'S A SIMPLE PROPOSAL THAT I THINK ANYONE WOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND.
I'M TRINITY PARK HOME OWNER. TRINITY PARK WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO ADD MORE DENSITY. WE ARE A BUS LINE, WALKABLE TO DOWNTOWN, AND WE ALREADY HAVE DUPLEXES, TRIPLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. PLEXES, QUAD PLEXES AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS INTERSPERSED AMONG SINGLE FAMILY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE WHO THINKS TE EXISTENCE O THOSE STRUCTURES NOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THERE MAKES TRINITY UH PARK A BAD PLACE TO LIVE. EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES HAS BEEN REPEATEDLY UH SCALED BACK IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF UNITS IT WOULD YIELD. WHEN SURVEY WAS DONE LAST SUMMER, THEY WERE ASKING ABOUT CROSS PLEXES AND THAT WAS REMOVED. THEN THE NOVEMBER DRAFT AND MARCH DRAFT WHERE MORE RESTRICTIONS WERE ADDED ON TO ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IN OTHER PARTS OF THE PROPOSAL. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THAT IS, WHY IT KEEPS BEING SCALED BACK GIVEN RESULTS OF THE 2018 RESIDENT SURVEY OF DURHAM. 60% OF PEOPLE SAID ADEQUATE SUPPLY OF HOUSING IS AN IMPORTANT PRIORITY, SHOULD BE, AND 36% SAID THAT NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER BUILDINGS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD SHOULD BE AN IMPORTANT PRIORITY. SO WE ALL KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE WHO SHOW UP TO THESE MEETINGS ARE NOT REPRESENTTIVITY OF THE ENTIRE CITY AND THAT'S WHY THEY SURVEY SAID WAS ADEQUATE SUPPLY OF HOUSING IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE IS AN IMPORTANT PRIORITY.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU. >> CAN YOU HEAR ME? >> YES. >> JOHN SWANSI, 110 NORTH BUCHANAN. I FOLLOWED THE EHC CLOSELY SINCE IT WAS REVEALED LATE IN THE FALL, AND PARTICIPATED IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD'S SUGGESTED FIXES TO THE FIRST DRAFT, SOME OF WHICH WERE ADOPTED AND MADE SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS. I HAVE NO FNANCIAL INTERESTS IN THIS OTHER THAN MY OWN HOME AT THE ADDRESS I MENTIONED.
ON MY STREET, IF YOU LOOK AT IT, I THINK MOST OF THE UNITS ARE IN FAMILY BUILDINGS ON BUCHANAN. THEY'RE APARTMENT BUILDINGS, QUAD PLEXES, DUPLEXES, B & B, HOTEL. WE HAVE ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE ON BAB CHAPMAN'S LIST: RENTERS, ADUs, AL OF THAT IS GREAT. NEIGHBORHOOD IS PRETTY MUCH FULLY BUILT OUT WITH THIS DIVERSITY OF HOUSING. I DID SOME RESEARCH INTO THIS BY TALKING TO PEOPLE IN OTHER CITIES. I CALLED UP NEIGHBORHOOD REPRESENTATIVE URBAN PLANNING PEOPLE FROM PORTLAND AND DID SOME RESEARCH ON HOUSTON AND NASHVILLE AND IT'S VERY CLEAR THERE'S A WAY THIS CAN BE WELL AND A WAY IT CAN GO POORLY. WHAT PORTLAND DID IS SPENT FOUR YEARS ON THEIR PROCESS, DID ECONOMIC IMPACT ASSESSMENT WHICH SHOWED A NUMBER OF THINGS. THEY HAD ECONOMIC THAT PREDICTED HOW MANY UNITS THEY WOULD EXPECT TO SEE ADDED, SHOWED WHICH ONES WOULD HAVE A BULS EYE ON THEM FOR TEARDOWNS. HIGHLIGHTED NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WOULD SEE GENTRIFICATION AND DISPLACEMENT BASED ON THE UP ZONING WHICH IS WHAT THIS IS.
MY THOUGHTS ARE WE SHOULD FIRST DO NO HARM. I ASKED ONE OF THE URBAN PLANNERS IN PORTLAND, UH YOU KNOW, HOW YOU ASSESS THIS. HE DESCRIBED WHO THE WINNERS AND WHO THE LOSERS ARE. THE WINNERS ARE THE DEVELOPER WHO HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO CUT DOWN TREES, KNOCK DOWN HOUSES, AND BUILD COOKIE-CUTTER LUXURY BOXES FOR WAEMENTTHY NEW COMERS. WINNERS ARE PEOPLE WHO BUY THEM. LOSERS ARE EVERYONE ELSE. ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS WHO CHARACTER MAY BE DRASTICALLY CHANGED, OR THE VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES WHO MAY BE GENTRIFIED AND DISPLACED OUT OF EXISTENCE. I'M IN FAVOR OF THE OVERALL IDEA OF THIS. I UH LIKE ADUs. IN FAVOR OF THE IDEA OF TAKE 30G DAYS ADDITIONAL TIME TO STUDY DETAILS AND MAKE SURE TO GET THIS RIGHT BECAUSE ONCE SOMETHING GOES WRONG, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDO IT. WE CAN ALWAYS TAKE IT INC. MENTALLY ONE STEP AT A TIME. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU. GOING TO CIRCLE BACK. I BELIEVE THAT LINDA WILSON HAS ARRIVED WHO HAD SIGNED UP.
THEN JUST TO SEE P IF MATH T McDOW HAS ARRIVED AS WELL? IF NOT — MATT McDOW. IF NOT, AFTER MS. WILSON, APRIL JOHNSON IS NEXT. >> APOLOGIZE FOR BEING LATE, BAD PLANNING ON MY PART. LINDA WILSON, 302 WATT STREET, THAT'S THE ORIGINAL WATTS HOSPITAL. GOING TO READ MY REMARKS TO RESPECT TIME. HERE TO ASK TO YOU VOTE NO ON EHC OR DELAY VOTE FOR ANOTHER 30 DAYS. STAFF HAS TOLD ME DIRECTLY THAT THEY ARE UNABLE TO FIND ANY CITY OR TOWN WHERE UP ZONING LIKE THE EHC HAS BEEN TRIED AND WORKED, BUT WE HAD DOCUMENTATION FROM A NUMBER OF CITIES WHERE UP ZONING HAS BEEN TRIED AND FAILED. TWO, THERE ARE NO MEASURABLE GOALS IN THE CURRENT EHC PLAN. THREE, THERE APPEARS TO BE NO ONE ON SENIOR PLANNING STAFF WHO LIVES IN MY OF THE URBAN TIER NEIGHBORHOODS THEREFORE NO ONE WITH REAL SKIN IN THE GAME. FOUR, IF UP ZONING FAIL UHS, LIVES WILL BE ALTERED FOREVER AND SOME HOMES LOST FOREVER. FIVE, ONCE THE UP ZONING IS PUT IN PLACE, IT'LL BE DIFFICULT AS SAID IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDO ANY UH DAMAGE THAT'S BEEN DONE UNLESS SOME PROTECTIONS ARE PUT INTO PLACE AT THE OUTSET.
SO, IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE TO VOTE YES TO THE EHC AS IT STANDS NOW, I WOULD ASK THAT YO DO THE FOLLOWING: ASK THE PLANNING STAFF TO INCLUDE MEASURABLE GOALS IN THE DOCUMENT. TWO, AN ASSESSMENT OF CHANGES, GOOD AND BAD AT SIX MONTHS, A YEAR, 18 MONTHS, AND TWO YEARS. THE ASSESSMENT SHOULD BE DONE BY OUTSIDE CONTRACTOR, SHOULD INVOLVE REPRESENTATION FROM EACH URBAN TIER NEIGHBORHOODS. FOURTH, IN THAT ORIGINAL DOCUMENT THERE SHOULD BE A METHOD THAT WILL ALLOW FOR ALTERATIONS TO EHC UPON RECEIPT OF THAT A DATA FROM TWO YEARS OF STUDIES. IF YOU CAN'T FEEL YOU CAN'T REQUIRE THESE THINGS OF THE PLANNING STAFFER, THEN I WOULD ONCE AGAIN ASK YOU TO VOTE NO ON THE EHC PRO PROPOSE OR ATLEAST DELAY UNTIL YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO REQUIRE THESE THINGS. I BELIEVE THE PLANNING STAFF HAS PUT THE ENTIRE CITY UNWITTINGLY IN THE POSITION OF A BLIND HOLDED GUIDE STANDING AT THE EDGE OF THE DIVING BOARD WITH NO IDEA WHETHER THERE'S WATER IN THE POOL OR NOT.
PLEASE ASK THEM TO THINK ABOUT THIS MORE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. APRIL JOHNSON THEN DICK HEALS. >> GOOD EVENING. APRIL JOHNSON, 1912 [INDISCERNIBLE]. FIRST OF ALL, THANK THE PLANNING STAFF. I KNOW THEY WORKED HARD ON THIS AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION [INDISCERNIBLE] COMMUNITY MEMBERS FOR MEETING AND DISCUSSING THOSE ISSUE. SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF MYSELF. EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF PRESERVATION DURHAM BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, I HAVE RECEIVED COMMENTS FROM MANY DIFFERENT FOLKS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND EVERYONE DOESN'T BELIEVE THE SAME. WE HAVE PEOPLE FOR IT, PEOPLE AGAINST IT, AND BUT WHAT I DO WANT TO SAY IS, I DID GO TO THE MEETING THAT WHERE THE — WHAT ARE THEY CALLED — PEOPLE FROM MINNEAPOLIS CAME AD TALKED ABOUT THEIR PROCESS, AND WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO DO IS USE THEM AS MORE OF A BETTER MODEL.
THEY TOOK TWO, THREE, FOUR YEARS WORTH OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. I UH THINK OUR PROCESS STARTED WITH DEVELOPERS AND BUILDERS AND THE COMMUNITY WASN'T INVOLVED UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE, AND SO I UH WOULD LIKE FOR THERE TO BE MORE TIME, MORE ENGAGEMENT, DIFFERENT GROPS, DIFFERENT INTEREST GROUPS BEING INVOLVED AND UNDERSTANDING THE PROCESS. UM, LET'S SEE. DUPLEXES AND QUAD PLEXES. I BELIEVE THESE ARE NOT STRANGERS TO HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AS WE CAN SEE IN TRINITY PARK, AND FAYETTEVILLE HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THEY'RE NOT STRANGERS. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THOSE, BUT I DO WANT TO STAND WITH — I DO SUPPORT MAYBE PROVIDING SPECIAL DESIGN TREATMENT TO HISTORIC DISTRICTS. PEOPLE LIVE IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR A REASON. THEY LIKE THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THEM. PEOPLE COME AROUND. THEY COMMUNE TOGETHER AND OVER HISTORIC HOUSES AND ARCHITECTURE. PEOPLE LOVE IT. WE JUST HAD A HOME TOUR WITH PRESERVATION DURHAM WHRE PEOPLE JUST LOVE BEING AROUND HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THERE'S COMMUNITY THERE, AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OR PEOPLE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, THEY DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THIS IS APPROVED OTHER THAN A PERSON'S GOING TO COME AND TEAR DOWN OUR HOUSES.
ALSO STAND WITH THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMMUNITY. I UH UNDERSTAND THAT IF THIS IS APPROVED THIS COULD POTENTIALLY INCREASE INFILL DEVELOPMENT AND IN THIS PARTICULAR MARKET, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT NEW HOUSES ARE GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE AT FIRST. SO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMMUNITY LOOKING TOWARDS IMPLEMENTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING POLICIES AND STANDARDS AT THE SAME TIME THIS IS INITIATED SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE AN AFFORDABLE PLACE TO STAY.
THAT WAS FAST. [LAUGHTER] I GOT THE MAIN THING. THANK YOU. >> DICK HALES. CLARICE SEIBEL. >> GOOD. DICK HALES, 100 BRIAR CLIFF ROAD. THANK MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION FOR YOUR SERVICE. SPECIAL TIP OF THE HAT TWO SEVERAL OF YOUR ON THE COMMISSION WHEN I WORKED 25 A YEARS FOR THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND LEFT IN 2004, AND THREE OF YOU ARE STILL HERE. EXTRA SHOUT OUT THERE. INVOLVED WITH SEVERAL COMPLETE REWRITES OF THE UDO, AND SEVERAL HUNDRED INDIVIDUAL OR SMALLER AMENDMENTS. THIS WOULD PROBABLY FALL IN THE MEDIUM-SIZED AMENDMENTS BASED ON WHAT WE DI OVER THE YEARS. SPEAKING THIS EVENING ON BEHALF OF THE COMMISSION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND TRANSIT. ENDORSED A BRIEF STATEMENT. FOUR-POINTS WE WANT TO MAKE. NUMBER ONE, COMMUNITY INPUT, THE COALITION AUH APPRECIATES, HAS PARTICIPATED IN AND SUPPORTS BROAD CONTINUING EFFORTS MADE BY CITY STAFF TO RECEIVE AND RESPOND TO COMMUNITY INPUT ON THESE IPORTANT PROPOSALS FOR ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS.
EQUAL INPUT, WE HAVEN'T HAD THIS MUCH INPUT FULL REWRITES ORDINANCE IN THE PAST AND DELIGHTED TO SEE STRONG COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT SHOWN HERE WHICH MEANS PEOPLE CARE ABOUT COMMUNITY AND NEIGHBORHOODS AND IT'S GREAT TO SEE. MEMBERS OF OUR COALITION HAVE ATTENDED MANY MEETINGS EITHER COMMUNITY MEETINGS OR ONES WE SET UP WITH STAFF. WE'VE WRITTEN LETTERS, PARTICIPATED IN SURVEYS AS WELL. WE KNOW FIRST-HAND THE BREADTH OF INPUT THAT'S BEEN ATTEMPTED AND RECEIVED ON THIS EFFORT UP 'TIL NOW; HOWEVER, WE STILL FULLY SUPPORT CONTINUING TO RECEIVE INPUT AND WE KNOW NUMEROUS PARTS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE STILL FINDING OUT ABOUT IT AND PROVIDING INPUT AS IT MOVES ALONG.
OUR MAIN COMMENT IS THAT ON THE MARCH VERSION OF THE EXPANDED HOUSING CHOICES AMENDMENTS RELATING TO ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, DULEXES, SMALL LOTS AND INFILL, COALITION SUPPORTS THOSE CHANGES AS WAYS TO SUPPORT MORE SMALL-SCALE INFILL HOUSING. ALL EFFORTS SHOULD BE MADE TO USE THESE NEW STANDARDS TO PRESERVE EXISTING AND PRODUCE ADDITIONAL AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS WELL AS TO RESIST DISPLACEMENT. IN PARTICULAR T CITY SHOULD IMPLEMENT NEW PROGRAMS AT THE SAME TIME A THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THESE PROVISIONS TO PROVIDE BOTH FINANCIAL AND TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TO HOMEOWNERS AND OTHERS UTILIZE THE PROVISIONS.
WE'VE TALKED TO CITY STAFF P THEY'RE INTERESTED IN THAT AND SETTING ASIDE FUNDS TO TARGET SOME OF THESE TYPE OF INFILL. WE BELIEVE THAT THE THESE CHANGES SHOULD SAW UH PORT NEIGHBORHOOD STABILIZATION AND NOT GENTRIFICATION. WE ALSO ENDORSE OR TIZ SAID. >> TERESA AND SUZANNE. >> TA RI RESA SEIBEL, MEMBER OF THE AYE COALITION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS PROGRAMS THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE CEATE THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING WE HOPE TO SEE WITH THIS ORDINANCE.
WE NEED TO GIVE IT TIME BECAUSE THOSE PROGRAMS ARE NOT IN PLACE. WE DON'T HAVE THE FUNDING YET FOR THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS OR FOR DUPLEXES OR FOR OTHER SMALL HOMES ON SMALL LOTS, AND THERE'S A DESPERATE NEED AS YOU HEARD, MORE THAN A THOUSAND PEOPLE ON THE WAITING LIST FOR HABITAT TO BUY HOMES. THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK ACTUALLY ORIGINATED FROM THE COMMUNITY EMPOWERMENT FUND WAS REDEFINING THE FAMILY TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE TOGETHER WHO MAY NOT BE MARRIED AND WHERE YOU CAN HAVE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING BY UH SHARING HOUSING WITH A COUPLE FAMILIES. SO WE WANTED TO JOIN THE REQUEST THAT ALL OF US COME TOGETHER AND MEETING TOGETHER AND I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF COMMON GROUND, ESPECIALLY AROUND THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND SO LET'S CONTINUE WORKING ON THIS.
THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> OH, AND WE MEET ON THIRD MONDAY, SO YOU'RE WELCOME TO JOIN US AND TALK ABOUT FUNDING. WELCOME TO JOIN US ON THIRD MONDAYS TO TALK ABOUT FUNDING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT CAN REALLY MAKE THIS EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES TO LOW AND MODERATE INCOME RESIDENCE OF DURHAM. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. [INDISCERNIBLE] AND THEN MR. MARTIN. >> SUZANNE SUL, 2904 LEEJEN AVENUE IN DURHAM. I SPEAK TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF TUSCALOOSA NEIGHBORHOOD. WE CONTINUE — THIS IS OUR STATEMENT. STRONGLY AGREES WITH DURHAM'S GOALS OF EQUITABLE GROWTH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, INCREASED DENSITY IN THE URBAN TIER AND NEIGHBORHOOD DIVERSITY. WE DOUBT, HOWEVER THAT THE EHC, AS PROPOSED, WILL MET ANY OF THESE GOALS. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT IT WILL CREATE FAST-PACED GENTRIFICATION OR WILL LEAD TO DESIRED OUTCOME OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING BY PROVIDING MORE HOUSING IN THE MISSING MIDDLE. MOREOVER UNDER EHC, MODEST NEIGHBORHOODS COULD BE CASUALTIES AS CHANGES WOULD INNOCENT FIE BUILDERS TO TEARDOWN AN CONSTRUCT LARGE LUXURY HOMES RATHER THAN DESIRED DUPLEXES, TOWN HOUSES THAT WOULD GIVE MORE DENSITY.
WE WISH FOR A COMPREHENSIVE SET OF PROGRAMS TO ADDRESS MULTIPLE ACTORS IN CURRENT SITATION. FOR INSTANCE, PROGRAMS THAT WOULD PROVIDE ACCESS TO DESIGNERS, CONTRACTORS, AND KAPT TALL SO THAT SMALL HOME OWNERS CAN REPAIR OWN HOMES AND BUILD ADDITIONAL HOMES ON THEIR OWN LOT. THIS WOULD SPREAD BENEFITS. WE OPPOSE EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES AS IT IS CURRENTLY. >> THANK YOU. MR. MARTIN. >> JAR VIS MARTIN 3608 MOSS DALE AVENUE. MANY KNOW I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING ALL OF MY ADULT LIFE. I STAND TO SAY I'M HERE REPRESENTING A NEWLY-FORMED ORGANIZATION OF MINORITY REALTORS, CONTRACTORS, DEVELOPERS, AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY THAT IS NOT PRESENT TONIGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE A PART OF THIS EXPANDED HOUSING CHOICE AND THAT WE SUPPORT WHAT MS. ORTIZ SAID THAT WE MUST DO SOMETHING IN THIS CITY TO MAINTAIN NOT ONLY AFFORDABILITY BUT A GREATER CHOICE OF HOUSING FOR ALL OUR RESIDENCE.
WE KNOW FIRST-HAND BECAUSE WE WORK IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS, WE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING TO SELL HOMES, THOSE WHO ARE HELPING PEOPLE TO MANAGE PROPERTIES, ETC, AND MANY OF US IN THIS GROUP OWN PROPERTY, SO WE SEE, DAILY, THE PRESSURES THAT IS BEING PUT ON THE TENANTS AND LANDLORDS HAVE WORKED TOGETHER TO MAINTAIN WE SUPPORT EXPANDED HOUSING CHOICES. IT IS NOT PERFECT, BUT WE MUST DO SOMETHING. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. THOSE ARE ALL THE SPEAKS SIGNED UP. I WANT TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY IF THERE IS ANYONE ELSE WHO YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK THIS, IS YOUR MOMENT. WELL, AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN WE FINISH WITH THIS EVENING'S PUBLIC HEARING, THE COMMISSIONERS WILL HAVE TIME TO DELIBERATE AND COMMISSIONERS CAN ASK QUESTIONS, MAY CALL UP INDIVIDUAL WHO IS ASK FOR A VERY DIRECT QUESTION ON SOMETHING YOU MAY HAVE SAID, AND I THINK WE'RE GOING HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, OURSELVES, AS WELL.
BUT THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY THAT IF YOU ARE HERE THIS EVENING, YOU NOT SPOKEN YET BUT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, YOU MAY INDICATE YOUR INTEREST TO SPEAK. ONE INDIVIDUAL. PLEASE COME ON UP. >> NANCY SCOTT, 1022 GLORIA AVENUE. I'VE LIVED THERE FOR MANY DECADES AN I AM ONE OF THE ORGANIZERS OF THE TRINITY PARK ASSOCIATION WHICH WAS FOUNDED IN EARLY 70s.
MY UH REAL CONCERN HERE IS THAT THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ANY APPRECIATION FOR THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FULLY-DEVELOPED NEIGHBORHOODS WITH EXISTING, MOSTLY HISTORIC HOUSING, AND VACANT LOTS. BECAUSE I HEAR THE TERM INFILL BEING USED INTERCHANGEABLY WITH ALSO SO MUCH IN THIS REZONING PROPOSAL THAT WOULD LEAD TO WHOLESALE TEARDOWNS OF ALL OF OUR MATURE, DEVELOPED, IN-TOWN NEIGHBORHOODS, AND SO WE MUST DISTINGUISH BETWEEN WHAT WAS ALREADY VACANT AT THE TIME THIS PROPOSAL WAS PUT FORWARD AND WHAT DEVELOPERS ARE HUNGERING FOR UH NOW WE GET CALLS EVERY DAY, WE GET CARD IN THE MAIL FROM GROUPS OF INVESTORS, BOTH LOCAL AND OUT-OF-STATE, CLAMORING TO BUY OUR HOUSE.
WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT IS ANYTHING THAT'S REALLY GOING TO BE GOOD FOR DURHAM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS NOT YET SPOKEN WHO WULD LIKE TO SPEAK? YES. I WOULD ASK THAT IF YOU COULD COME AND GET IN LINE. AGAIN, IF YOU CAN GIVE YOUR NAME AND YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. IF YOU AREN'T IN LINE NOW, WE ARE GOING TO CLOSE TONIGHT'S HEARING AFTER THIS. >> TOMORROW, LIVE IN 1203 ROUGHIN' STREET, TRINITY PARK. I WAS NOT PLANNING ON SPEAKING TODAY AS I'M STILL LEARNING ABOUT THIS INITIATIVE, LITTLE LATE TORE THE GAME THAN I WOULD HAVE HOPED, BUT WHAT I UH CAN SPEAK TO IS THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY THAT I'VE WORKED WITH DESPERATELY TRYING TO FIND A PLACE TO LIVE. I WOULD JUST LIKE YOU TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AS WAS SAID EARLIER THAT MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT HERE TODAY TO SPEAK. I SURRENDER MYSELF, MAKE A LIVING WAGE BUT NOT MORE THAN THAT.
I TENDING MEETINGS LIKE THIS IS REALLY DIFFICULT WHEN YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE YOUR RENT, SO, YEAH, PLEASE TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT AND THANKS FO HEAR ME TODAY. >> TOMORROW, WHAT IS YOUR LAT NAME? >> SHUKRIN. >> THANK YOU. >> THNK YOU FOR YOUR WORK YOU'RE DOING. DAVID PAUL HENDERSON. WIFE IS NANCY SCOTT. I'VE BEEN RESIDENT 22 GLORIA AVENUE IN TRINITY PARK FOR 33 PLUS YEARS. ALSO A MEMBER OF THE LIONS CLUB FOR 35 YEARS. ALSO, BEEN WORKED CHRISTIAN HARVARD FURNITURE DOWNTOWN DURHAM BACK IN LATE 70s AND 80s. THE MAJOR SHIFT, THE WAY I SEE IT FOR THE INVESTORS, THEY'RE NOT THE MAJOR STAKEHOLDERS IN THIS, FOLKS. CITIZENS OF DURHAM — I'M A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED WE HAVE A ROT OF PEOPLE HERE, I I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WORK AT WHERE I'VE BEEN FOR 27 YEARS, HARD WORKERS, AND WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
THE ANSWER TO THEIR QUESTIONS ASKED BEFORE WHAT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING? WHAT IS THE RATE? WELL, TRINITY PARK IS A DIVERSIFIED AREA. YES, THERE ARE UNITS WERE YOU CAN TAKE AND BUILD A HOUSE OR A SMALL HOUSE OR BILD A DUPLEX, YES, THERE ARE, BUT TO COME IN AND ZONE IT WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO CHANGE AND TEAR DOWN HOUSES IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR MISTAKE. I THINK WHAT EVERYONE HERE NEEDS AND THE CITIZENS OF DURHAM, YOU NEED TO STAND UP FOR CITIZENS OF DURHAM. THEY ARE THE MAJOR STAKEHOLDERS. A LOT OF THE PEOPLE AREN'T HERE. THEY'RE WORKING. THEY'RE HARD WORKERS, MAKE 20,000, $30,000. QUESTIONS BEFORE THE ZONING WAS ASKED WAS HO MUCH IS — WHAT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING? I NEVER GOT A CLEAR ANSWER WHEN I WAS HERE IN MARCH. IT GOES BACK TO ECONOMICS 101, SAM LSON. SHIFT YOUR BURDEN TO THE TAX PAYERS OF DURHAM. SHIFT REVENUE TO THE INVESTORS A AND THE NEW PEOPLE COMING IN BUYING UP THE HOUSES, TEARING THEM DOWN — YEAH, YOU UH MIGHT HAVE A COUPLE HERE OR THERE — BONDS GOING TO DO THAT.
I THINK UH YOU NEED BE CAREFUL CONSIDERATION AND THINK ABOUT THE LONG-TERM EFFECT OF DURHAM PEOPLE OF DUHAM FROM HOMELESS L- TO THE WELL-TO-DO. IN DOING THAT, I THINK YOU NEED TO PUT AND THINK UH WHAT'S DURHAM GOING BE LIKE IN 20 YEARS? I UH TALKED TO DURHAM LIONS CLUB COUNCIL MEMBER AND MAYOR SCHEWEL. I VOTED FOR HIM, HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS AT THE LION'S CLUB MEETING. I UH KNOW HIS BROTHERS WHO WORKED IN THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY FOR YEARS, BT IN ALLOCATION YOU TAKE MONEY IN THE BOND AND GIVE IT TO CERTAIN GROUPS OR SHAREHOLDERS WHERE THE MONEY IS ALLOCATED, IT REALLY DOESN'T FLOW TO THE PEOPLE OF DURHAM WHO NEED IT FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND WHO NEED TO WORK TWO OR THREE JOBS. THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT NEED TO BE HELPED, SO PLEASE CONSIDER THIS. I'M TOTALLY AGAINST THIS, THE WAY THIS IS. THANK YOU. THERE ARE OTHER PARTS OF DURHAM THAT COULD BE REZONED.
>> SO WE ARE CONCLUDING THE PUBLIC HEARING TODAY. I'M TOLD ACCORDING TO THE RULES I MAY ASK YOU A QUESTION AS A SPEAKER. ALLOW ME A BRIEF QUESTION. >> BRIEF IS THE KEY. >> ABOUT A FACT WHICH WE AS AN AUDIENCE SEEM TO BE DIVIDED ON. WE WERE TOLD BY REPRESENTATIVE THAT NORTH CAROLINA STATE LA FOR BIDS RESTRICTS RESTRICTIONS ON ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF NEW DEVELOPMENTS BUT EVEN IF HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD WE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO AMEND THIS PROPOSAL BY RESTRICTING THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE NEW DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S AGAINST STATE LAW AM I CORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING HIS WORDS OR INCORRECT? >> THAT'S A FAIR QUETION. THANK YOU FOR ASKING. ASK STAFF IF THEY COULD ADDRESS THAT QUESTION AND THEN ACTUALLY STAFF COULD STAY UP BECAUSE I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS BEFORE I OPEN IT UP FOR COMMISSIONER COMMENTS. >> MICHAEL STOCK WITH PLANNING. TO ADDRESS STATE LAW, STATE LAW DOES PROVIDE LIMITATIONS ON DESIGN AND AESTHETIC CONTROLS FOR SINGLE FAMILY AND TWO-FAMILY RESIDENCES AS DEFINED THROUGH THE BUILDING CODE. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS. LOCAL AND NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE TWO EXCEPTIONS WITHIN THAT. ALSO OTHER EXCEPTIONS FOR MANUFACTURED HOUSING AND HOUSES IN FLOODPLAINS.
>> THANK YOU. BEFORE YOU WALK AWAY, MR. STOCK, COULD YOU WALK THROUGH WITH US BECAUSE THIS IS A UNIQUE PROPOSAL AND COMES AT A UNIQUE TIME THAT THE PROCESS FROM HERE FORWARD — THERE WAS PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND IT WAS IN FRONT OF US AT MARCH MEETING. WE ARE GIVEN THE ABILITY TO REVIEW THIS FOR UP TO THREE CYCLES. SO WE VOTED TO CONTINUE THIS FOR TWO CYCLES WHICH BROUGHT IT BAK HERE TONIGHT, AND AT THIS POINT, WE HAVE TWO OPTIONS: ONE OPTION IS WE CAN CONTINUE THIS FOR ONE ADDITIONAL CYCLE UNTIL THE JUNE MEETING.
THE OTHER OPTION IS THAT WE DELIBERATE THIS EVENING AND WE HAVE A VOTE UP OR DOWN AND MOVES FORWARD TO CITY COUNCIL; CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> THOSE ARE OUR OPTIONS. JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT AS AN ADVISORY BODY. SECOND OF ALL, AM I CORRECT WHEN WE SEND AN ITEM FORWARD WHETHER APPROVED OR DENIED, IT MOVES FORWARD TO GOVERNING BODY, IT WILL NORMALLY LAND THERE WITHIN TWO CYCLES OF OUR REVIEW TO MOVE FORWARD; IS THAT — IS THAT TRUE FOR THIS PROPOSAL? >> THIS PROPOSAL, BECAUSE OF THE BREAK THAT CITY COUNCIL TAKES IN JULY, IT WOULD PROBABLY — UNLESS TOLD OTHERWISE, IF PLANNING COMMISSION ACTS TONIGHT AND PROVIDES RECOMMENDATION FOR OR AGAINST, MOST LIKELY THE EARLIEST WOULD BE IN AUGUST BEFORE THE ELECTED BODIES WOULD HAVE PUBLIC HEARING ON IT.
POSSIBILITY THAT MAYBE IF WE GOT DIRECTION TO DO SO TO TRY TO GET IT BEFORE THE LAST MEETING IN JUNE, BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW WE'RE ANTICIPATING AUGUST AS BEST CASE SCENARIO. >> CITY UH COUNCIL TAKES A BREAK IN JULY, TO WORK SESSION OR MEETINGS. >> THEY DO NOT, NOT ON THEIR SCHEDULE THIS YEAR. >> YOUR LANGUAGE IS NOT TISHLLY SPECIFIC. THERE MIGHT BE A CHANCE. IT MAY NOT MATTER TO OTHER COMMISSIONERS, THT REALLY MATTERS TO ME. IF WE APPROVE THIS TONIGHT DOES THIS PROVIDE THE TIME FOR THE COMMUNE TOY CONTINUE TO BE ENGAGED AND MOVE FORWARD IN JUNE OR DOES THIS ARRIVE IN AUGUST? >> SCOTT WHISPERED SWEET NOTHINGINGS IN MY EAR BY SAYING THAT — [LAUGHTER] — THAT AUGUST IS THE BEST CASE SCENARIO. THERE WILL NOT BE A JUNE OPTION.
>> SO THE VERY EARLIEST THIS WOULD ARRIVE WOULD BE IN AUGUST. >> CORRECT. >> I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US AS COMMISSIONERS TO THINK ABOUT THAT IN OUR DELIBERATIONS AND PROBABLY GOOD FOR EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE TO KNOW. >> YES. UNDERSTANDABLE. >> OTHER QUESTIONS BUT I WANT TO GIVE COMMISSIONERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. START TO MY RIGHT WITH QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, COMMISSIONER. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, COMMISSIONER BRINE. >> THANK YOU, CHAIR. I'M SURE WE ALL HAVE NUMEROUS QUESTIONS, BUT I'LL RESERVE ANY MY INITIAL COMMENTS TOWARD HIGH-LEVEL THINGS. ONE, THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT AND BEING ENGAGED IN THIS PROCESS. IT'S A LOT TO DIGEST AND TO UNDERSTAND AND I'M SURE WE'RE ALL STILL LEARNING AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS SO THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING OUT AND PROVIDING YOUR THOUGHTS, CONCERNS, AND FEEDBACK. UM, SO I JUST WANT TO START BY ASKING STAFF TO JUST PROVIDE CONTEXT SO THAT IT'S CLEAR AND ARTICULATED TO THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS ME AND MY COLLEAGUES ON THE COMMISSION REGARDING THE GOAL REGARDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
WITH THIS EHC, IS THERE A HOUSING GOALS?EL OF AFFORDABLE – IS THERE A PARTICULAR GOAL IN REGARDING TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT WHAT WE ARE CONSIDERING THIS EVENING IS AIMED TO HELP CONTRIBUTE T OR ADDRESS? >> PRESENTATION MADE BACK IN MARCH AND OTHER MEETINGS THAT STAFF HAS ATTENDED, WE'VE TRIED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THIS IS NOT GOING SOLVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ESPECIALLY UH SUBSIDIZED AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WHAT THIS IS AIMING TO DO IS IT CAN HELP WITH THAT IN TERMS OF ALLOWING FOR THOSE MISSION-BASED SUPPLIERS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND EVEN THOUGH THAT ARE SUBSIDIZED AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS TO PROVIDE MORE DENSE AND MORE HOUSING OPTIONS.
UM, BUT ULTIMATELY, THIS IS A GOAL TO PROVIDE OPTIONS TO ALLOW FOR MORE VARIETY OF HOUSING AT, HOPEFULLY, DIFFERENT PRICE POINTS BASED ON DIFFERENT SIZING IN AREAS THAT ARE MOST DESIRABLE AND TO HELPLESSEN IMPACT ON NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE NOT YET SEEN THOSE DEVELOPMENT PRESSURES. BASED UPON THE PROJECTIONS THAT WE'VE SEEN FOR THE INCREASED INFLUX OF UH NEW RESIDENCE. >> AND SO BASED ON THAT, CAN ONE ASSUME OR CAN YOU PROVIDE INSIGHT ON PLANNING'S THINKING OF ARE YOU EXPECTING DEVELOPERS, BEING ONE OF THE STAKEHOLDERS OR ANYONE, AN EXISTING HOME OWNER, ETC, ETC, WHO CAN PARTICIPATE BASE ON TO ACTUALLY COME IN AND PURSUE LOW-INCOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING BASED ON PROPOSED CHANGES TONIGHT; PARTICULARLY LOW-INCOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING? >> LOW-INCOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND I'M NOT GOING TO — IF YOU — WHAT CITY HAS TALKED ABOUT ABOUT LOW-INCOME HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN DONE THROUGH EITHER SUBSIDIZED OR MISSION-BASED PROVIDERS.
SO THIS CAN HELP WITH THAT. IT'S NOT GOING TO PROVIDE IT IN AND OF ITSELF. >> THANK YOU. ANOTHER QUESTION REGARDING THE PARKING. THIS IS PART OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS AND SO THE CURRENT PROPOSAL IS IS THERE'S LESS MANDATES IN REGARDS TO PARKING REQUIREMENTS WITH THE ADUs AND ACCESSORIES, AND SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT JUST BECAUSE [INDISCERNIBLE] PASS THE PARKING ASPECTS OF IT JUST BECAUSE IT'S NOT REQUIRED DOES NOT MEAN THAT ADDITIONAL CARS WILL NOT COME TO EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS THAT MAY BRING ADDITIONAL ACCESSORY UNITS SO IT'S NOT LIKE SAYING JUST BECAUSE RER NOT REQUIRING PARKING REQUIREMENTS THAT MORE CARS WILL NOT COME TO NEIGHBORHOODS, CORRECT? >> CORRECT.
>> AND FINALLY, THE ONE COMMENTER — THE NAME — MENTIONED THAT IN ONE OF THE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS THAT A HOME THAT WAS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE WAS ABLE TO BE OBVIOUSLY FOR TEARDOWN, IS THERE ANYTHING EXISTING IN OLD REGS OR ANYTHING THAT PREVENTS EXISTING A HISTORIC STRUCTURE FROM ARE BEING TORN DOWN OR HOW DID THAT HAPPEN IN THE SENSE THAT A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE WAS ABLE TO BE COMPLETELY TORE DOWN? >> GOOD QUESTION. TWO TYPES OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THERE'S THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT WHICH IS LOCAL REGULATION, ZONING OVERLAY, AND DEVELOPMENT ON PROPERTIES WITHIN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS HAVE TO GET SPECIAL APPROVALS CALLED CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS THROUGH AND LARGER PRIMARILY THROUGH HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION. THEY'RE SMALLER PROJECTS DONE THROUGH STAFF. THROUGH LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS, TO DO A TEARDOWN A STRUCTURE YOU HAVE TO GET CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FROM THE HISTORIC COMMISSION AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DELAY IT UP TO A YEAR. NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE NOT REGULATORY-BASED. THEY ARE TAX INCENTIVE-BASED. AND THERE'S NO FEDERAL PROHIBITION ON THE TEARDOWNS, THERE'S NO LOCAL PROHIBITION ON TEARDOWNS.
ANY BUILDING CAN BE REMOVED WHETHER IT'S A HOUSE OR OFFICE BUILDING OR SHOPPING CENTER UNLESS YOU HAVE SPECIFIC STATE-ENABLING LEGISLATION TO LIMIT A DEMOLITION, THERE'S NO ALLOWED PROHIBITION ON DEMOLITION. >> JUST WRAPPING UP. JUST FOR CONTEXT, I RAISED THE PARKING QUESTION AND I'LL ADDRESS TIS TO MY COLLEAGUES IN THAT I THINK THAT THE PARKING PROPOSED CHANGES THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE AS MUCH CAN BE A GOOD THING FROM PARTICULARLY STORMWATER RUNOFF AND SOME NEIGHBORHOODS ARE EXPERIENCING POLES IN THE STREET WHEN IT RAINS REALLY HARD. SO I THINK THAT COULD BE GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL PIECE, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT JUST BECAUSE THAT BECOMES A NON-REQUIREMENT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THAT WE'LL BE HEARING THAT MORE CARS OR WHATEVER ARE COMING TO THESE NEIGHBORHOODS. THIS IS ACTED UPON BECAUSE WE'RE A CAR UNIT CITY RIGHT NOW AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME FOR THE WALK, RUN, BIKE TO BECOME PART OF OUR DN SOOSHGS I FELT THAT WAS SOMETHING TO KNOW.
I'M GOOD. >> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER BRINE. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I WANT TO ECHO COMMISSIONER JOHNSON'S THANK YOU TO EVERYBODY WHO CAME OUT TONIGHT, TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTACTED ME ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, AND ALSO WANT TO THANK STAFF FOR ALL THEIR EFFORTS ON THIS PROPOSAL. SINCE WE'VE HAD TWO MONTHS TO MULL THINGS OVER, I'VE BEN SPENDING SOME TIME GOING THROUGH ALL THE PIECES OF PAPER, AND I DO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THIS AS IT IS BEFORE US TONIGHT. THOSE PROBLEMS CAN REALLY BE BROKEN INTO TWO CATEGORIES: PROCESS AND THEN THE PRODUCT.
IN THE PROCESS, WE STARTED WITH A PRACTITIONER'S PNEL AND I CAN SEE THAT THERE WAS PROBABLY A NEED FOR THAT AS A STARTING POINT, BUT WHERE I REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM IS THE FACT THAT WE'VE NEVER CONVENED WHAT I WOULD CALL A NEIGHBORHOOD PANEL, AND P IF THERE'S ONE THING I'VE LEARNED TONIGHT FROM LISTENING TO THE COMMENTS THAT PEOPLE MADE, WE REALLY NEED MORE DISCUSSION. A NEIGHBORHOOD PANEL WOULD BE USEFUL TO COORDINATE THAT BECAUSE THERE IS STILL NOT AGREEMENT AMONG PEOPLE AS TO WHAT IS BEST. SOME PEOPLE LIKE OPTION B, SOME PEOPLE LIKE THE MARCH VERSION, SOME PEOPLE PREFER NOVEMBER. WE HAVEN'T WORKED IT OUT YET. ANOTHER THING THAT WAS RAISED IN WHICH I AGREE WITH IS THAT WE SEEM TO BE GETTING CART BEFORE THE HORSE WHEN IT COMES TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. I UH WENT BACK TO THE MEMO THAT STAFF WROTE THAT CAME WITH OUR MARCH DRAFT, AND THEY PUT IN A SUMMARY OF ISSUE STATEMENT TO SHOW SUPPORT FROM THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BUT THIS IS A SUMMARY OF ISSUE STATEMENT, IT'S NOT AN OBJECTIVE AND IT'S NOT A POLICY.
WE'VE PUT IN ANOTHER POLICY THAT SAYS THROUGH THE UDO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE VARIABILITITY OF LO SIZE AND ALLOW VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES AND STYLES IN NEW RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS TO AVOID MONOTONY. IF YOU GO T THE VERSION OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WHICH IS ON THE INTERNET, YOU'LL FIND THAT THIS PARTICULAR POLICY IS SHOWN IS BG BEEN COMPLETELY IMPLEMENTED. SO I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW IT REALLY APPLIES HERE. I THINK THE GOAL THAT WE'RE WORKING, TRYING TO WORK TOWARD, IN EXPANDED HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES IS A NOBLE ONE BUT I DON'T SEE IT EXPRESSED IN THE CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND I DON'T SEE ANY POLICIES IN THE CURRENT PLAN TO HELP US ACHIEVE THIS GOAL.
SO, IN MY OPINION, THAT IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN EVEN THOUGH THAT PLAN IS BADLY OUT OF DOUBT, AND I HAVE TROUBLE SUPPORTING SOMETHING THAT'S INCONSISTENT OR NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. UH, I THINK GOING FORWARD SINCE WE'RE BEGINNING TO THE PROCESS OF YOU KNOW UPDATING OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, I UH THINK EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES NEEDS TO BE A DISCUSSION TOPIC THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT AND WE NEED TO DEVELOP THE GOALS, THE OBJECTIVES, AND THE POLICIES THAT WILL ENABLE US TO ACHIEVE IT. ALSO DONE THAT HAVE A NEW PLAN IN PLACE WITH THOSE IN IT, THEN, I THINK, IS THE TIME TO UPDATE THE UDO. RIGHT NOW, THE WAY I SEE IT, WE'RE MAKING SWEEPING CHANGES TO THE UDO WITHOUT ANY REAL RELEVANCE TO OUR COMP PLAN.
THAT'S THE POCESS PART OF IT. NOW, I HAVE A LIST OF SEVERAL THINGS THAT I QUESTION ABOUT THE CURRENT DRAFT. I'M ONLY GOING TO MENTION TWO OF THEM AT THIS POINT. ONE, I AM VERY CONCERNED — I SHARE THE CONCERN THAT'S BEEN EXPRESSED FOR THAT THIS PROVIDES AN INCENTIVE FOR TEARDOWNS NOT ONLY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS BUT IN WELL-ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOODS; THEIR CHARACTER COULD BE CHANGED AND NOT FOR THE BETTER, AND I UH FEAR THAT, YOU KNOW, POORER NEIGHBORHOODS MAY ACTUALLY FEEL THE BLUNT OF THIS SO-CALLED REDEVELOPMENT THAT IS TEAR-DOWN AND SOMETHING ELSE BEING BUILT. I ALSO HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. I'M NOT AGAINST THEM, BUT I WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU AN EXPERIMENT I DID BACK IN MARCH. I PRETENDED THAT I WAS GOING TO [INDISCERNIBLE] AND I WANTED TO STAY IN AIR B & B, SO I DID A SEARCH, MY PARAMETERS WERE ONE ADULT STAYING TWO NIGHTS DURING THE WEEK. I THINK I WAS ARRIVING TUESDAY, LEAVING ON THURSDAYS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
MY LITTLE SEARCH GAVE ME OVER 300 HITS SCATTERED ALL THROUGH DURHAM. NOW, I DIDN'T GO THROUGH ALL 300 PLUS HITS BUT I WENT THROUGH ENOUGH OF THEM TO LEARN THAT DETACHED ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS WERE CERTAINLY PART OF THE RENTALS, AND SO WHEN I LOOK AT IT, YOU KNOW, THIS ONE TIME IN MARCH THERE WERE OVER THREE HUNDRED RENTALS OUT THERE, BUT I COULDN'T FIND IT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, THE PEOPLE WHO WERE RENTING THEM, UH, FELT THAT THEY COULD DO BETTER AS AN AIR B & B THAN THEY COULD RENTING TO A LOW OR MEDIUM INCOME PERSON. FOR THIS REASON, I'M A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS OF HOW MUCH ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS ARE REALLY GOING TO HELP US WITH THE PROBLEM. AND WITH THAT, I'LL BE QUIET FOR A WHILE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER BRINE. COMMISSIONER DURKIN. >> THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO SAY A QUICK WORD IN SUPPORT OF RENTERS. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF RENTER BASHING AND AS A FORMER RENTER, I'M CURRENTLY A HOMEOWNER, BUT AS SOMEONE WHO WAS RAENTER FAR LONG TIME AND AS SOMEONE WHO HAS LIVED AMONG MANY RENTERS FOR MANY YEARS, I THINK TO THAT TO SUGGEST THAT THEY DON'T HAVE AN INTEREST IN THEIR COMPLUN CITY REALLY FALSE AND IT'S HARMFUL TO PEOPLE WHO ARE RENTERS AND TO CAST THEM THIS BROAD NET OF BEING UNINVOLVED IN THEIR COMMUNITY IS REALLY NOT FAIR.
SO MY BRIEF STATEMENT IS REALLY JUST IN SUPPORT OF RENTERS. THANKS. >> COMMISSIONER AL-TURK. >> THANK YOU, CHAIR. THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO'S COME OUT TONIGHT AND SPOKEN, AND THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO'S E-MAILED. I WANT TO THANK THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT FOR THE COMMUNITY MEETING THAT YOU HELT ON APRIL 27TH, I THINK. THAT GAVE ME ANOTHER CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH RESIDENCE ABOUT CONCERNS. UM, THANKS ALSO FOR THE GREAT STAFF REPORT FROM MARCH, AND I ALSO WANT TO THANK FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. I WAS OUT OF TOWN FOR THE LAST MEETING WE HAD ON EHC TWO MONTHS AGO SO I HAD TE ADDED BENEFIT OF HEARING YOUR COMMENTS AND YOUR QUESTIONS THAT HAVE INFORMED MY COMMENTS TONIGHT. THAT FOUR HOURS ON YOU TUBE WAS FUN. [LAUGHTER] I'M NOT GOING GET INTO THE TECHNICAL DETAILS.
FOR THE MOST PART, UH I THINK, I LIKE A LOT OFTHE TECHNICAL DETAILS. I KNOW WE CAN QUIBBLE ABOUT WHICH VERSION WAS BETTER. I UH JUST THINK UH THAT MUCH OF THE DISCUSSION FROM LAST TIME WAS AND FROM TODAY WAS ABOUT THE EFFECT THIS WOULD HAVE ON AFFORDABILITY SO I'M GOING TRY TO MAKE COMMENTS ON THAT. I THINK THERE'S AN ASSUMPTION THAT IF WE INCREASE SUPPLY OF HOUSING THAT THAT WILL LEAD TO MORE AFFORDABILITY. I'LL BE THE FIRST ADMIT I'VE SAID THAT ON THIS BOARD, ON THIS COMMISSION IN MY UH THREE YEARS HERE, BUT THE MORE I READ ABOUT HOUSING MARKETS, THE MORE I COME TO REALIZE THAT IT IS NOT — IT DOESN'T OPERATE LIKE MOST MARKET GRIDS AND THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CURVES WE LEARN NO ECONOMICS 101 THAT WAS ELUDED TO DON'T QUITE WORK, I THINK, IN WHEN IT COMES TO HOUSING.
THE OTHER CHALLENGE IS, I THINK, A NUMBER OF US HAVE NOTED AND NUMBER OF SPEAKERS HAVE NOTED IS THAT THE ACADEMIC LITERATURE ON THE LINK BETWEEN SUPPLY AND AFFORDABILITY IS UNCLEAR. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF REASONS FOR THAT SO IT IS DIFFICULT. I THINK ONE THING WE CAN DO AN ONE THING THAT I WILL PUSH FOR AND THAT WILL BE A THREAT IN MY COMMENTS IS THAT WE DO HAVE A LOT OF EXCELLENT DATA ON A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THE COUNTY, RIGHT? SO I THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT, RIGHT, TO GET A SENSE OF WHAT THE EFFECT THIS WILL HAVE. MR. MORGAN SAID IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE MORE DATA FOR US TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION.
SO LET ME FOCUS ON — I MEAN, I TRIED TO DO A LITTLE BIT MYSELF AND SO IF, MIKE, ANYTHING I SAY SEEMS LIKE IT'S WAY OFF, LET ME KNOW, BUT I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE DUPLEX PROVISION IN THE PROPOSAL. THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S A CLEAR, RIGHT NOW, YU KNOW, CURRENTLY ALLOWED IN THE RUSHGS RU-5(2), RU-M, RSM IN URBAN TIER THE PROPOSAL SAYS WE CAN NOW BUILD A DUPLEX BY RIGHT IN THE RU-5 AND RS ZONING DESIGNATION IN URBAN TIER. SO ALL GOTTEN RECENT TAX EVALUATIONS FROM THE ASSESSOR OFFICE AND I WENT AND LOOKED AT THEIR DATA AND I WAS TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF WHAT THE PROPERTY VALUES ARE OF DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE COUNTY. SO CURRENTLY, [INDISCERNIBLE] SINGLE FAMILIES HOMES THAT ARE ZONED WHERE YOU CAN BUILD A DUPLEX, THERE ARE ABOUT FIVE THOUSAND OF THEM IN URBAN TIER AND THEY'RE MEDIAN PROPERTY VALUE IS 172,000, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THEN THERE'S THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE ZONES RS WHERE YOU CANNOT CURRENTLY BUILD A UH DUPLEX, RIGHT.
THERE ARE ABOUT 3,600 OF THOSE AND THEY'RE MEDIAN PROPERTY VALUE IS ABOUT $293,000. THAT'S BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE, AS SUSPECTED, MOST OF THESE HOMES, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ARE IN FOREST HILLS, TRINITY PARK WHERE I LIVE AN WATTS HILLANDALE, RIGHT. IT'S NOT A CLEAR — THESE ARE NOT CLEAR BOUNDARIES BUT MOST OF THE RS DESIGNATIONS IN URBAN TIER ARE IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS AND THEY HAVE A VERY HIGH MEDIAN PROPERTY VALUE. THEN YOU'VE GOT RU-5, RIGHT. THERE ARE LOTS MORE OF THOSE, ABOUT TEN THOUSAND OF THOSE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WHERE AGAIN YOU CANNOT CURRENTLY BUILD DUPLEX BY RIGHT. THE MEDIAN HOUSING VALUE THERE IS $143,000. SOME OF THOSE ARE IN OLD BEST WEST DURHAM BUT MOST OF THOSE ARE IN EAST, SOUTHEAST, AND NORTHEAST DURHAM. RS ZONE WHERE YOU CANNOT BUILD DUPLEX, CURRENTLY, MEDIAN PROPERTY VALUE ABOUT 300,000.
RU-5 ZONE MOSTLY IN EAST PART OF COUNTY MEDIAN VALUE OF $143,000, DOES THAT SOUND MORE OR LESS RIGHT TO YOU? OKAY, YOU DON'T KNOW. >> NEED SCOTT TO WHISPER TO YOU? [LAUGHTER] >> SO THEN DO HAVE A DIRECT QUESTION FOR YOU THOUGH. TO ME THIS SUGGESTS THAT MOST OF THE INCREASE SUPPLY UH IS GOING TO BE IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE COUNTY. MOST OF THE NEW DUPLEXES WILL PROBABLY BE BUILT BECAUSE IT IS MORE FINANCIALLY INCENTIVIZED TO DO SO IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED RU-5 WE WOULD ALLOW THEM TO BUILD DUPLEXES; AM I OFF IN SUGGESTING THAT? >> I CAN'T SAY YOU'RE OFF OR ON FOR SUGGESTING THAT. >> OKAY. I WILL SUGGEST THAT I AM ON AND — [LAUGHTER] — A AND THAT BECAUSE IT IS A LOWER MEDIAN VALUE, THE HOUSING VALUES THAT ARE RELATIVELY LOW AND I THINK THE LIKELIHOOD OF FAMILY HOME INTO A DUPLEX OR TEARING IT DOWN IS PROBABLY HIGHER IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THAN TRINITY PARK, WATTS HILLANDALE AND FOREST HILLS.
THAT'S MY GUT. I HAVE THREE THOUGHTS ON THEM. IF UH YOU LOOK AT A NAP DEFINE APARTMENT PRODUCED RECENTLY IN APRIL JCCPC MEETING, NOT IN OUR PACKET BUT IT'S A DISPLACEMENT RISK MAP AND I WANT TO THANK A COUPLE RESIDENCE FOR POINTING THAT OUT TO ME. LOOK AT GREATEST RISK OF DISPLACEMENT IT'S IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE CURRENTLY — A LOT OF IT — THAT ARE CURRENTLY ZONED RU-5 WHERE YOU CANNOT BUILD A DUPLEX BUT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO, RIGHT? DARK BLUE IN THAT MAP, MAPS ON VERY WELL WITH RU-5 THAT WE'RE PROPOSING SOME CHANGES.
SO THEN TO ME, I FEEL LIKE THE POTENTIALLY CONTRADICTS ONE OF THE MAIN GOALS OF THIS PROPOSAL WHICH IS IN TH STAFF PRESENTATION YOU SHOWED US THE BUYING DOWN ASSUMPTION. TO — AND MOVES IN FROM OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTY OR IS ABLE TIE FORD IT AND THEY CANNOT FIND SOMETHING IN TRINITY PARK, THEY'LL GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. MY CONCERN IS THAT, THAT ACTUALLY — WE'RE NOT GOING TO INCREASE SUPPLY IN TRINITY PARK AND WATTS HILLANDALE CONSIDERABLY AND THAT MUCH OF THE INCREASE IN THE SUPPLY WILL GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND I UH THINK IT'LL GO INTO THOSE — WILL BE MORE LIKELY IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE AT CURRENTLY HIGH RISK OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOW INCOMES THAT ARE AT RISK OF BECOMING DISPLACEMENT. YOU KNOW, I UH GUESS YOU COULD SAY, ARGUE THAT WE HAVE MORE SUPPLY IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE COUNTY, EAST DURHAM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S BEEN ELUDED TO A NUMBER OF TIMES HERE; WE DON'T HAVE INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE AYE CREATE AFFORDABLE HOUSING THERE, AND SO I APPRECIATE MS. ORTIZ AND OTHERS SUGGESTING THAT NOT ALL DEVELOPER ARE BAD AND I UH DON'T THINK THIS WOULD BE CONSIDERED OR ACCUSED BY BEING ANTEDEVELOPERS BUT WE HAVE TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT WHAT SOME INCENTIVES WILL BE TO CREATE EXPENSIVE DUPLEXES, EXPENSIVE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN PARTS OF THE COUNTY UH THAT ARE AT RISK OF ECONOMIC DISPLACEMENT.
THAT'S ONE BIG CONCERN I HAVE OF THIS AS IT STANDS. I UNDERSTAND THE GOALS, THE GREATER GOALS OF THIS, BUT WHEN I LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, I FEEL LIKE INCENTIVE IS GOING TO BE HIGHER TO INCREASE DUPLEXES IN THE EAST DURHAM AND AGAIN QUESTION HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER THAT'S GOOD OR NOT, BUT I UH FEEL LIKE THIS POLICY SUGGEST TO ME THAT THIS POLICY WILL NOT BE AN EQUITABLE POLICY. IT WILL NOT BE SOMETHING THAT CREATES MORE EQUALITY AND IS MORE PROGRESSIVE JUST FROM LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS, AND I WOULD — YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN THIS, MATTHEW DESMOND WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED EVICTED BUT ALSO WRITTEN AN ARTICLE THAT LOOKS AT THE FACT THAT THE POOR ARE STILL THE MOST BURDENED WHEN IT COMES TO RENT AND IT'S BECAUSE OF LANDLORDS AND DEVELOPERS ARE ABLE T DO IT AND AAIN I DON'T WANT TO BE DISPARAGING OF ALL DEVELOPERS, BUT WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT FACT.
IF WE DON'T HAVE PROTECTIONS FOR AFFORDABILITY, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE JUST — YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST ASSUMING THE MARKET WILL WORK ITSELF OUT. ALL RIGHT. I HAVE A MORE SPECIFIC QESTION FOR STAFF AND THAT BECAUSE OF THESE CONCERNS THAT I HAVE, MR. SWANSON BROUGHT UP A POINT ABOUT PORTLAND DOING ECONOMIC DISPLACEMENT STUDY. I WOULD LOVE FOR SMETHING LIKE THIS TO BE DONE HERE. IS THERE ANY BARRIERS TO DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS? WE HAVE A WEALTH OF DATA WHERE WE CAN ASSESS THE POSSIBILITY EFFECTS THAT THIS WOULD HAVE ON DISPLACEMENT. I KNOW IT WOULD BE BE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS BUT I WOULD RATHER US DO THAT BEFORE WE PUT THIS POLICY IN PLACE. >> IF YOU HAVE METHODOLOGY YOU'D LIKE TO SUGGEST OR SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK IT UP BEFORE BRINGING IT TO CITY COUNCIL, BUT — ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND TO GET YOUR REQUEST FOR THE DATA [INDISCERNIBLE] WE'D NEED TO UNDERSTAND A LOT MORE LIKE HOW MANY VACANT LOT ARE INCLUDED BECAUSE THAT WOULD BRING DOWN THE AVERAGE VALUE. >> NONE VACANT, ALL FOR OCCUPIED HOMES. TAX DATA HAS A LOT OF GREAT INFORMATION ABOUT IT AND WE CAN SEE HOW MANY HOUSES HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE, TEN YEARS, RIGHT? WE CAN SEE WHERE DUPLEXES ARE POPPING UP.
WE CAN SEE THEIR MARKET VALUE. WE CAN SEE A LOT OF THINGS, RIGHT? >> CERTAINLY CAN. THIS INFORMATION WAS IN YOUR STAFF REPORT BUT IN THE LAST TEN YEARS IN DURHAM COUNTY WE'VE HAD EIGHT NEW DUPLEXES. >> OKAY. SO I GUESS I WANT TO SAY THAT I THINK — I'LL LEAVE THAT THERE FOR A SECOND. IF I MAY HAVE A FEW MORE? >> YOU MAY. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. SOMETHING COMMISSIONER BAKER MENTIONED LAST TIME AND HAS COME UP A LITTLE BIT HERE IS THAT THE SUBURBAN TIER THAT WE'RE NOT INCLUDING THE SUBURBAN TIER IN THIS. THE RESPONSE THAT PAT GAVE TO COMMISSIONER BAKER'S QUESTION, ONE OF THEM WAS THE DEMAND IS HIGHER IN URBAN TIER.
I UH GUESS, I MEAN I DON'T REALLY SEE THAT BECAUSE YOUR OWN NUMBERS SHOWED THAT MOST OF THE HOUSING SUPPLY UH I GOING TO BE IN THE SUBURBAN TIER. SO PART SFK THAT THERE'S MORE LAND AND SUPPLY OUT THERE BUT PEOPLE ALSO WANT TO LIVE IN URBAN TIER AND PART OF THIS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, MUCH OF THE GROWTH O THE COUNTY IS GOING TO BE IN SUBURBAN TIER. QUESTION AGAIN WOULD BE WHY ARE WE LEAVING THAT PART ALONE AND IS THERE ANY PLAN TO INCORPORATE OR DO ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY IN THE SUBURBAN TIER IN THE COMING — I MEAN I THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE SIMULTANEOUSLY WHILE W'RE ADDRESSING URBAN TIER BUT IS THERE ANY PLAN TO CHANGE ANY OF THE SINGLE FAMILY ZONING IN THAT TIER? >> CURRENTLY, THE RU-5 DISTRICTS THAT ARE WITHIN THE SUBURBAN TIER COULD BE WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT.
WE ARE ALSO REVISING CLUSTER SUBDIVISION AND CONSERVATION SUBDIVISION REQUIREMENTS TO ALLOW FOR MORE VARIETITY OF HOUSING INSTEAD OF CURRENT FOCUS ON SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING. ADU CHANGES ARE ALSO CITY/COUNTY WIDE. >> AGAIN, BIGGER POINT IS THAT MOST OF THE RS ZONING IS IN SUBURBAN TIER. A LOT OF IT IS NOT DEVELOP SOD THERE'S NO THE — I ASSUME THE PRIVATE GOVERNANCE DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE, RIGHT? >> SO WE COULD TECHNICALLY MAKE CHANGES TO RS ZONING THAT HAS NOT BEEN DEVELOPED — >> THAT'S POSSIBLE, YES, FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION, ABSOLUTELY. >> AGAIN, I THINK THIS IS A — SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, THE SUBURBAN TIER DWARFS URBAN TIER IN TERMS OF DEMAND AND SUPPLY.
71% OF THE SUBURBAN TIR IS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WHEREAS 22% OF UNIT IN URBAN TIR ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. I UH THINK, IMAGINE IF WE'RE REALLY INTERESTED IN INCREASING SUPPLY, I FEEL WE CANNOT BELIEVE SUBURBAN TIER ALONE. — WE CANNOT LEAVE THE SUBURBAN TIER ALONE. SO I'LL LEAVE THAT TERE COUPLE OTHERS MENTIONED OTHER AFFORDABLE HOUSING STRATEGIES. WALK US THROUGH WHAT THE CONNECTION OF THIS EHC IS TO THE MAYBE THE PROPOSED $95 MILLION BOND? IS THERE ANY REAL CONNECTIONS THERE BETWEEN THE TWO? KIND OF THINKING ABOUT THEM TOGETHER? >> I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE BOND TO DO THAT AT THIS TIME? >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AGAIN, I WOULD SAY THAT AS COMMISSIONER BRINE AND OTHERS MAYBE HAVE E ELUDED TO IS I THINK EHC SHOULD BE PART OF MORE COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY. SOME COMMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY COME UP FROM MS.
ORTIZ, MS. JOHNSON ABOUT HISTORIC DISTRICTS, ABOUT NON-MARKET SOLUTIONS, ALL OF THESE THINGS CAN GO INTO OUR — AND I THINK EASE SOME OF THE BURDEN IN THE URBAN TIER THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND I THINK IN SUMMARY THIS IS WHAT I SEE, WE'RE ARTIFICIALLY SUPPRESSING THE SUPPLY IN THE SUBURBAN TIER, INCENTIVIZING MORE HOUSING IN URBAN TIER TO PROBABLY MORE LOWER INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS WHICH CREATES ECONOMIC DISPLACEMENT. I WILL SAY THAT THIS IS — IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME HOW THIS FITS WITHIN A LARGER STRATEGY WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE CITY AND THAT NEEDS TO BE MORE CLEAR. I'M NOT SAYING WE PUSH THIS OFF FOREVER, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW HOW THIS FITS IN, WITHIN A LARGER STRATEGY, AND I HESITATE — I WOULD HATE FOR US TO PASS SOMETHING LIKE THIS THAT WOULD HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AND POTENTIALLY, I THINK, NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES, BEFORE WE KNOW WHERE SOME OF THE NEW HOUSING UNITS FROM THE BOND ARE GOING TO GO OR WHERE SOME OF THE RENOVATIONS ARE GOING TO GO. UM, AND TO ME THIS IS WHY I THINK TALKING ABOUT THE TECHNICAL DETAILS TO ME ARE NT IMPORTANT, TO ME, TO REALLY GET TO MORE PROGRESSIVE POLCY, I THINK WE NEED TO RETHINK THE WAY THIS PROCESS AS DEVELOP AND WHERE THIS FITS IN, WITHIN A LARGER FRAMEWORK.
CAN I UH LIST ONE MORE THING? YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD SOME PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED REDLINING AND THE LEGACY OF ZONING AND THAT DISCUSSION IS BEING HAD. THE DECISIONS OF THE 1930s AND 40s HAVE HAD, YOU KNOW, LONG-TERM EFFECTS IN CITIES THROUGHOUT THE U.S. SO MY THOUGHTS ABOUT THS — AND AGAIN I'M GLAD OTHERS ARE TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK MENTIONED — THOSE ARE IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE BUT TO ME THE WAY TO ADDRESS THOSE POLICIES ARE NOT SIMPLY TO DO THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE DONE BACK THEN AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE BUT I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH. THE OTHER THING I UH THINK RED LINING HISTORY TELLS US IS THAT ZONING DECISIONS HAVE REALLY LONG-TERM EFFECTS AND I DON'T THINK IT WOULDN'T HURTTOUS SPEND ANOTHER FEW MONTHS OR ANOTHER YEAR TO REALLY STUDY THIS, TO STUDY WHAT THE EFFECTS OF THIS WOULD BE. THESE ARE GOING TO HAVE DECADES-LONG EFFECTS, THESE CHANGES, AND I WOULD REALLY LOVE FOR US TO WHETHER IT'S TO BRING MORE STAKEHOLDERS TOGETHER.
I FEEL LIKE MANY OF THE COMMENTS MADE CAN BE HASHED OUT IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S THE APPROACH I WOULD LIKE THE SEE. THESE ARE GOING TO HAVE LONG-TERM EFFECTS AND I AM HESITANT TO SUPPORT THIS AS IT STANDS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. VICE CHAIR HYMAN. >> THANK YOU.
I THINK COMMISSIONER AL-TURK HAS BASICALLY PROVEN MY POINT. THESE ARE VERY COMPLICATED ISSUES, AND I'LL GO BACK TO COMMISSIONER BRINE'S COMMENT ABOUT PROCESS. I THINK WE ARE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. THERE'S A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN A LOT OF WORK IS GOING TO BE DONE IN CREATING A NEW COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THAT PARTICULAR PROCESS WILL ALSO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE NEED TO CHANGE THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE. SO THE UDO IS GOING TO GET A MAJOR OVERHAUL, AND I THINK WHAT IS HAPPENING IS SO CRITICAL TO THE SUCCESSs OFZ EVERYTHING GOING FORWARD IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT WE REALLY NEED TO PAUSE.
AS I LISTEN TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS — VERY GOOD QUESTIONS CAME FROM THIS BODY. A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS ARE HERE ENTHUSIASTICALLY WILLING TO WORK ON PROCESS, AND TE WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE, I THINK, IS TO BE COMMENDED, WHICH MEANS THAT THERE IS A FIRST FOR HELPING OUT WITH THIS PROCESS AND IT SHOULD START WITH THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE COMMUNITIES RATHER THAN THE PRACTITIONERS. I DO THINK THAT IT WAS PROBABLY NOT THE BEST THING FOR US TO DO, TO START WITH THE PRACTITIONERS BUT TO SART WITH THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED. ALSO HEARD SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT. A QUESTION WAS ASKED: WHAT PLAN IS IN PLACE TO REVIEW THE CHANGES AND THEN MANAGE THE PIECES? I HEARD THAT FROM SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS INCLUDING ONE WHICH ACTUALLY ASKED K: IF YOU GO FORWARD WITH THIS, IF YOU MUST, AND AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT I'M NOT INCLINED TO SUPPORT — I'M NOT INCLINED TO SUPPORT THIS — BUT THE QUESTION WAS ASKED: COULD YOU GET THE STAFF THEN TO HAVE MEASURABLE GOALS AND ASSESSMENT OF THE CHANGES GOOD OR BAD? SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR? IN TWO YEARS AFTER INITIATING SUCH A HUGE UP ZONING PROCESS? KOUL SOMETHING LIKE THIS BE BUILT IN? ALL THAT TELLS ME IS THIS: THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY MOVING PARTS AND LOTS OF LOOSE ENDS, AN EVEN OUR BODY, IF WE COULD GET TOGETHER TO EVEN DISCUSS IT MORE AS FAR AS SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE DONE BECAUSE ALL OF THIS ABOUT MAKING THE BEST DECISION FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND I'M NOT FEELING THAT WE'RE THERE YET.
THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS AND I'LL ASK THIS QUESTION BECAUSE SOME OF OUR CITIZENS ASKED: IS THERE ANYTHING BUILT INTO THE PROCESS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY ALLOW FOR MEASURING AND DURING THAT PROCESS IF YOU'RE GETTING IT RIGHT, IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RESTART OR ONCE IT'S DONE, ONCE THE UP ZONING IS DONE, IS THAT IT? >> SO, UM, AS PLANNING DIRECTOR INDICATED AT THE PREVIOUS PUBLIC HEARING AND AT OTHER MEETINGS, HE IS COMMITTED TO DEVELOPING A METRIC PLAN AND TO DO TO REVIEWING IT WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS ON A YEARLY BASIS AND WITH ANY TEXT WITH ANY ORDINANCE THERE'S ALWAYS OPPORTUNITIES TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE AS DEEMED NECESSARY. >> AND THAT WAS THE OTHER PART OF IT AND THE CITIZENS ALSO ASKED: WOULD SOMETHING BE BUILT IN THEN FOR THEM TO BE INFORMED AS WELL 'CUZ I'M SURE THERE'S GOING BE A LOT OF INTEREST IN THIS EVEN MOVING FORWARD. >> SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK INTO, I CAN'T GUARANTEE IT CAN BE BUILT IN. >> THANK YOU. >> COMMISSIONER MILLER, YOU MIGHT HAVE COMMENTS.
>> I HAVE COMMENTS BUT I LIKE TO SAY THAT AS SOMEBODY WHO ALMOST NEVER COMPLETELY AGREES WITH ANYBODY, I COMPLETELY AGREE WIH THE REMARKS I'VE HEARD FROM MR. BRINE AND MR. AL-TURK AND MS. HYMAN SO FAR. I TOO TINK WITH REGARD TO PROCESS, I THINK WE'VE MADE A TREBLE MISTAKE IN CREATING/ADDRESSING STAKEHOLDERS IN THIS. WE CREATED A SPECIAL PANEL WHO WAS WORKING WITHOUT — AT LEAST I WOULDN'T WORK THEY WERE WORKING — AND THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST APT TO BE BENEFITTED BY THE PROPOSED CHANGES. WE DID NOT, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE STAKEHOLDERS IN THE AREA BURDENED BY THE CHANGES — WE DIDN'T CREATE A PANEL OF KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE OF THEM WHO COULD CONSULT WITH THE STAFF OR CONSUL WITH THE BENEFITS STAKEHOLDER AT THE SAME TIME SITTING TOGETHER AT THE SAME I WOULD HAVE FELT MUCH BETTER ABOUT THAT AND HAVING NOW DIVIDED THE STAKEHOLDERS, WE PRODUCED, FINALLY, IN NOVEMBER, A CONCEPT OF THE EHC, AND THEN PUBLIC ENGAGE M CHANGE FROM CONSULTANTIVE TO SALES.
SO ENGAGEMENT TO THE COMMUNITY IS, HERE'S EHC, HERE'S WHY IT'S SO GOOD. IT DOESN'T, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE PROCESS? WE WEREN'T STARTING WITH ZERO WITH THE BURDENED STAKEHOLDER GROUP AND THE RESULT OF THAT IS WE NOW HAVE ALL OPPOSITIONAL RELATIONSHIP. I WONDER THU CAN BE FIXED. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT IN SETTING IT UP THIS WAY, WE HAVE CREATED A GREAT DEL OF COMMUNITY DISTRUST IN THE PROCESS.
I ALSO THINK THAT WE HAVE SET UP A WHOLE BUNCH OF AXIOMS THAT DUST JUSTIFY THE EHC THAT DON'T NECESSARILY PLAY OUT IN TRUTH AND I THINK THIS ALSO AS WE HAVE COME TO REALIZE THIS FROM A YEAR AGO WHEN THIS WAS ALL ABOUT AFFORDABILITY AND NOW IT'S NOT, I THINK THAT ALSO UNDERMINES TRUST IN THE PROCESS. WE SHOULD B BUILDING THE COMMUNITY'S TRUST AD CONFIDENCE, NOT BREAKING IT DOWN. EVERYTHING THAT WE DO, WE NEED TO TELL EVERY CITIZEN OF DURHAM NOT MATTER WHAT THEY DO, SPECIAL THINK PEOPLE WHO'S INTEREST IN PLANNING AND ZONING IS THEIR HOME, THE PLACE THAT THEY SAVED TO BUY OR THE PLACE WHERE THEY LIVES OCCUR, WHERE THEIR HEIR – CHILDREN GROW UP, AND WHERE THEIR TRIUMPHS AND TRAGEDIES OCCUR.
THESE ARE REAL THINGS THAT MATTER BUT WE ALWAYS SCOOT THEM ASIDE. THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS AND IF YOU'RE INTEREST IN THIS PROCESS IS YOUR HOME, THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE A HAND ON THE STEERING WHEEL AND YOU SHOULD NEVER FEAR WHAT SOMEBODY IS TRYING TO SLAP I OFF. BUT I'M AFRAID IN THIS PROCESS THAT'S WAT WE'VE DONE. WE PRIDE OURSELVES IN BEING A CITY FOR ALL BUT THIS HAS NOT BEEN A FOR-ALL PROCESS. I AM CONCERNED THAT WE HAVE THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. I SAT THROUGH THE REALLY INTERESTED PRESENTATION BY THE FOLKS FROM MINNEAPOLIS. WHAT THEY WERE DESCRIBING WAS NOT THE EHC PROCESS THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE DURHAM. WHAT THEY WERE DESCRIBING WAS THEIR REDO AND ADDRESSING WITH A SUPERIOR SYSTEM OF CITIZEN ENGAGEMENT OF THEIR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. FIX PLAN, CHANGE THE ORDINANCE. WE'RE CHANGING THE ORDINANCE BEFORE WE FIX THE PLAN. UNLIKE MOST CITIES IN NORTH CAROLINA, WE ACTUALLY UH HAVE SOMETHING IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT MAKES THE PLAN COMPLIANCE WITH THE PLAN MANDATORY. STATE LAW DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT.
SO I SHARE MR. BRINE'S CONCERN THAT THE EHC, IT'S EXTREMELY ARGUABLE WHETHER THE EHC CONFORMS TO THE PLAN ESPECIALLY WHEN THE PLAN IS FILLED WITH SECTIONS ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO IDENTIFY AND PRESERVE HISTORIC ASSETS BECAUSE THE EHC DOES NOT DO THT. THERE IS NO AFFORDABILITY. I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT AK RECEIVE SELL RATED GENTRIFICATION AND I BELIEVE THIS WILL DO THIS AN KI NOT COMPETE WITH MR. AL-TURK'S ANALYSIS BUT I CAN AGREE WITH IT COMPLETELY. WE TALK ABOUT GENTRIFICATION, BUT THE PROFIT IN EXPLOITING THE PROVISIONS OF THE EHC ARE GOING TO COME FROM BUYING THE LEAST EXPENSIVE HOUSES, THE OLD HOUSES T SMALL HOUSES, AND THEN CONVERTING THEM INTO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE HOUSING. ONE THING I'VE SEEN AS A MEMBER OF THS COMMISSION FOR THE LST FIVE YEARS IS, IS THAT WHEN IT'S BUILT NEW IT'S MORE EXPEN SIFR THAN WHAT'S ALREADY ON THE GROUND.
OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING EXISTS, WHY WOULD WE ADOPT POLICIES AND RULES WHICH ATTACK THAT HOUSING? SO I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. I HAVE A BUNCH OF TECHNICAL THINGS THAT I'LL SKIP, I MAY WIND UP TALKING ABOUT THEM. I HAE CONCERNS THAT THE EHC PROPOSALS ARE OVERBALANCED IN FAVOR OF INVESTMENT HOUSING OVER THE POSSIBILITY FOR HOME OWNER SHIP HOUSING. YOUR CREATION OF FAMILY WEALTH, WEALTH THAT PAYS FOR YOUR KIDS' TUITIONS THEN GROWS AND IS PASSED ON COMES FROM HOME OWNERSHIP. NOT EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD A HOME AND I'M NOT SAYING RENTAL HOUSING IS BAD, WE HAVE TO HAVE IT, BUT THIS FAVORS FORMS OF HOUSING LIKE DUPLEXES THAT ARE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT OWNED BY INVESTORS TO GENERATE RENTS. RENTAL HOUSING IS A WEALTH TRANSFER ENGINE. TENANTS PAY THEIR RENT AND WHEN THEY'RE DONE WITH THEIR TENANCY THEY LEAVE AND HAVEN'T GOT ANYTHING TO SHOW FOR IT. I WOULD LIKE TO ALWAYS SAY UH THAT IN DURHAM, OUR RULES ALLOW FOR A BALANCE OF HOUSING TYPES AND THAT PEOPLE WHOSE PERSONAL SITUATIONS ALLOW THEM TO ENTER THE HOUSING MARKET AS OWNERS [INDISCERNIBLE].
AS MR. AL-TURK SAID, THE HOUSES THAT WILL GO FIRST IN THIS ARE OUR CURRENT ENTRY-LEVEL HOMEOWNER HOUSES. SO I THINK WE CAN TWEAK IT WITHOUT DOING IT ANY HARM, BUT I AM CONCERNED THAT MULTIPLYING DUPLEXES AT THE EXPENSES OF SMALL AFORDABLE HOUSING WILL ACTUALLY DO OUR COMMUNITY A DISSERVICE IN THE LONG RUN AND WILL EXACERBATE AND PROLONG THE VERY SEVERE RACIAL DISTINCTION THAT EXISTS IN DURHAM AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT INFILL STANDARDS. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT HISTORIC DISTRICT PROTECTION. I DON'T APOLOGIZE TO ANYBODY. I'VE LIVED IN DURHAM ALL MY LIFE, BORN HERE, ITS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS ARE IMPORTANT TO ME. I'VE BECOME HISTORIC AT THE SAME TIME THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE BECOME HISTORIC. [LAUGHTER] UM, I WOULD LKE TO HAVE BETTER PROTECTIONS.
I THINK THE EASIEST THING WE CAN DO IS ACCEPT PROVISIONS REGARDING ADUs WHICH I THINK CAN BE MANAGED THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS THROUGH THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMISSION. I WOULD EXEMPT OUR LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS FROM THE APPLICATION OF THE EHC. WE HAVE EIGHT LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS LOCATED IN THE URBAN TIER. THEY RA RELATIVELY SMALL, MAKE UP A SMALL PER TAEN TEENAGE OF THE TOTAL PLAN PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL LAND. OTHER THING DURHAM HAS NEVER TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IS THE ABILITY TO CREATE DESIGN STANDARDS FOR HOUSES IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICT. WE HAVE MANY NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICTS IN DURHAM, AND I AGREE WITH WHAT THE SPEAKERS TONIGHT HAVE SAID. I WOULD EXEMPT ALL THE AREAS INSIDE NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICTS FROM THE EHC UNTIL WE CAN CREATE A BODY OF DESIGN RULES THAT PROTECT THE HISTORIC ASSETS IN THOSE AREAS. IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF PROTECTION THAN THE LOCAL DISTRICTS, BUT IT WOULD PUSH BACK AGAINST THE INCENTIVES TO DEMOLISH AND TEAR DOWN THE HISTORIC ASSETS WHICH ARE ACTUALLY NOT JUST THE CHARACTER OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS BUT THE CHARACTER OF DURHAM. I DO BELIEVE THAT ONCE WE GET — WE CAN DRAW UP DESIGN REGULATIONS IN FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER AREAS WITH EHC IN MIND AND WHEN WE ADOPT THE DESIGN RULE APPLY THE EHC TO THOSE AREAS AT THAT TIME AND HAVE A BETTER PROGRAM.
THIS IS THE WAY OF PUSHING IT BACK AGAINST THE ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT OUR URBAN TIER BOUNDARY SHOULD BE A PLY, WE CREATED THE TIER BOUNDARIES BACK IN 2005 AND I DON'TED THEM IN JAN 2006, WITHOUT HAVING EHC IN MIND. WHY ARE OUR BOUNDARIES LINES ON THE MAP DRAWN THEN, THE GUIDING LINES FOR AN ENTIRE NEW IDEA ABOUT THE NEED TO REDEVELOP OUR URBAN CORE? I BELIEVE THAT AS WE DEVELOP THE EHC PROVISIONS, I BELIEVE WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT THE LINES ON THE MAP AND NOT JUST ACCEPT THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE THERE.
AGAIN, THIS WOULD BE A FUNCTION — BACK TO WHAT MR. BRINE AND WHAT MS. HYMAN ALSO SAID — OF DOING THIS IN THE CORRECT ORDER, WHICH IS ADDRESSING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FIRST WHERE WE DRAW TIER BOUNDARIES, AND THEN COMING UP WITH ZONING RULES. IF WE STOPPED NOW AND THEN PUT THE HORSE IN FRONT OF THE CART, DO WE LOSE THE WORK WE'VE DONE SO FAR? NO, WE DON'T, IT DOESN'T GO AWAY. THE ONE THING CAN GUIDE THE OTHER. ALSO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY AS TO RESTRUCTURE THE STAKEHOLDER INPUT IN A WAY THAT BUILDS TRUST, BUILDS UNDERSTANDING, BUILDS COOPERATION. AND WE CAN COME OUT WITH A BETTER RESULT. I FEEL LIKE MR. AL-TURK ADOPTING CHANGES TO THE UDO FOR THE EHC WILL ACTUALLY DO DAMAGE TO THE STATED GOALS FOR THE EHC THAT E WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIX.
I'M NOT IN A HURRY TO MAKE THINGS WORSE WHEN THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER BY A BETTER PROCESS, BETTER COOPERATION. SO THAT'S MY FEELING ON THIS. I'M GOING TO SKP AND LEAVE ASIDE THE THINGS — I MEAN IF IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL GO AHEAD AND VOTE TONIGHT THEN VI SOME SPECIFIC CONCERNS THAT I WOULD LIKE THE SEE ADDRESSED AT A MINIMUM BUT THOSE ARE MY BIG CONCERNS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GIBBS. >> YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED, IF YOU DON'T HAVE COMMENTS, THAT'S FINE. >> I WAS NOT GOING TO, BUT I CAN'T — I'VE GOT TO. I UH AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID FROM THE PANEL, AND I DO THINK THIS EHC WOULD BE BETTER ADDRESSED WITHIN THE NEW STUDY OF A NEW COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THIS EHC CAN — BUT IT'S A GOOD START. THERE IS A PLACE IN PLANNING FOR IN FILL, FOR ALTERNATIVE HOUSING CHOICES AND THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT KEEPS COMING AT ME WEN I HEAR COMMENTS FROM THE DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS. THIS IS NOT ALTERNATIVE HOUSING DIRECTION/REQUIREMENT. THESE ARE INTENDED TO BE CHOICES IF IT'S NEEDED, IF A HOME OWNER OR PROPERTY OWNER WANTS TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND EVERY MEETING I'VE BEEN TO STAFF HAS NOT AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS IS- PROPOSAL, THIS IS JUST TO PRESENT HOUSING ALTERNATIVE CHOICES, AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING — THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FROM ALL THIS TO EVEN ADDRESS A FRACTION OF THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING ONCE WE DETERMINE HOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE AHEAD WITH AND IDENTIFY AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
WE GOT A LONG WAY TO GO ON THAT, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SAY THOSE COMMENTS THAT STAFF HAS DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB IN TRYING TO COME UP WITH A PRODUCT FOR US AND WE ARE, US, US, ALL THE PUBLIC TO, SOMETHING TO DISCUSS, SOMETHING TO BASE OUR FEELINGS ON AND TO THE MORE WE LOOK AT IT, WE CAN SEE WHERE IT MAY AFFECT OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT I SENSE A FEAR, TOO, THAT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING FROM THE VERY FIRST MEETING THAT I WENT TO EVERYBODY WAS AFRAID THAT THEIR WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD IS GOING TO GET TORN DOWN. THERE ARE RULES REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THIS THING GOES INTO EFFECT. YOU CAN'T GO INTO A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND JUST WILLY-NILLY TEAR DOWN THINGS. THERE ARE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT PROTECT HISTORIC DISTRICTS, HISTORIC STRUCTURES, AND I'M SAYING ALL OF THESE THINGS WAS A I'M STILL AT THIS MINUTE STILL STRUGGLING WITH THIS WHOLE THING, AND I KNOW IT AFFECTS DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS AND CERTAIN CONCERNS AND EVEN FEARS AND IT KIND OF CONCERNS ME, TOO, DISTRUST OF QUOTE DEVELOPERS, BUT IT'S BEEN SAID TONIGHT ANYBODY CA GO OUT IN THE BACKYARD, MAKE A TRIP TO LOWE'S AND BUILD HIS OWN ADU, BUT, ANYWAY, I'M, UH — I UH THINK I'LL JUST LET THOSE COMMENTS GO.
I JUST WANTED TO THROWS THOSE THINGS OUT AND TO REASSURE PEOPLE CONCERN AND I'VE SAID THIS MANY TIMES — THIS EHC IS NOT DESIGNED TO BE A LAND GRAND GRANT. NOBODY IS GOING TO FORCE ANYBODY — WHETHER HISTORIC DISTRICT OR WHATEVER — AND I THINK THIS WHOLE EHC CONCEPT WHEN WE GET TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN COULD INVOLVE AND PROBABLY SHOULD INVOLVE NOT ONLY SUBURBAN BUT THERE'S APPLICATIONS COUNTY-WIDE 'CUZ WE ARE GOING TO GROW. EVERYBODY CANNOT LIVE DOWNTOWN. EVERYBODY'S GOT TO GO SOMEWHERE ESPECIALLY WHEN NEW HOUSING IS BEING DEVELOPED AND BUILT AND GENTRIFICATION IS TAKING PLACE, THERE'S NO OTHER PLACE TO GO BUT TOWARD THE COUNTY, MOVING OUT, AND SO OUR PLANNING, I THINK, AND I PROBABLY WON'T BE AROUND WHEN THIS TIME COMES WHEN IT EXPANDS THAT FAR THAT WE WOULD COME ALMOST METROPOLISED — IF THAT'S A WORD. BUT THOSE ARE JUST COMMENTS AND THOUGHT IS I HAD BUT I UH THINK WHEN WE ALL WORK TOGETHER UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT — AND I THINK THEY HAVE THE CAPABILITY, THE EXPERTISE, TO ADDRESS AND CONSULT OTHER TOWNS IN OTHER STATES JUST TO GET SOME POINTERS, BUT, I ALSO HAVE FAITH AND HOPE THAT WHEN THESE CONSIDERATIONS OR THESE INVESTIGATIONS ARE MADE, DURHAM IS NOT PORTLAND, PITTSBURGH, DURHAM IS DURHAM AND WHATEVER IS DECIDED WOULD HAVE TO BE DETERMINED AND A THE FINAL PRODUCT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE BASED ON DURHAM'S UNIQUENESS AND YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
>> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER GIBBS. COMMISSIONER MORGAN. >> THANK YOU. I KIND OF HELD BACK ON MY INITIAL COMMENTS TO LEAVE ROOM FOR SOME OF THE MORE ARTICULATE MEMBERS OF OUR XHIKS COMMISSION TO ADD THEIR COMMENTS AND IT KIND OF CONFIRMED MY OWN GUT FEELING AS FAR AS HEARING WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS WE'VE HEARD FROM THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS. I UH THINK THE CAKE ISN'T BAKED YET, SO TO SPEAK. I THINK THRE IS A NUMBER OF THINGS TO DO WITH IT. I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE GET RID OF, BUT I UH DO THINK WHERE I SAID LAST TIME WAS MORE DATA, I THINK UH WE GOT SOME DATA, SOME GREAT FEEDBACK, AND WE GOT SOME GOOD WELL-THOUGHT OUT IDEAS AND A I THINK WHAT WE NEED NOW MORE IS MORE COLLABORATION WITH THE COMMUNITY, MORE COLLABORATION WITH PLANNING COMMISSION, PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND WITH THIS IN ORDER TO BAKE THE CAKE MORE BECAUSE I THINK IF WE WANT TO GET THIS RIGHT, YOU KNOW, IMPACTS EVERYTHING, AND SO IT IS JUST SO LARGE TO TRY TO PUSH IT FORWARD TO GET MORE INPUT AND GET MORE COLLABORATION WITH THE NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE IT ISN'T A ONE-SIZE-FIT-ALL, IT IS RELATED TO MOE NEIGHBORHOODS SO MY UH THINKING I THIS UNDERSTANDING THAT AND TO BE ALLOWING FOR THAT WHICH LIE WHAT, YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER MILLER WAS SAYING ABOUT WE SOMETIMES GET THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE, WE'VE DONE DIFFERENT THINGS WE NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE NEED TO DRAW BOUNDARIES BETTER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WORKS AND WHT DOESN'T, TO TAKE SOMETHING THAT'S 12 YEARS OLD IN HAVEN'T REVISED IT AND USE THAT AS A BASIS FOR THIS, CAN BE FLAWED IN SOME WAYS.
SO MY THINKING IS, IS, YOU KNOW, MEASURABLE RESULTS AS SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID. DEFINING CLEAR RESULTS OF EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT WE NEED. CONCERNS IF THERE'S MORE DETAILS, I UH THINK, SOMETIMES ARE CONCERNS THAT'S IF WE ARE ABLE TO SOLIDIFY THOSE A LITTLE BIT BETTER, THAT'LL TAKE A LOT OF THE FEAR FACTOR OUT OF THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM AND WHAT IT MIGHT DO TO PEOPLES, COMMUNITIES, AND THEIR HOMES AND THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M THINKING FROM THAT SENSE IS MY GUT WAS SAYING WE'RE NOT READY YET WITH SOME OF THIS STUFF, AND I THINK THERE ARE MORE THINGS WE CAN DO, AND I THINK SOME OF THE, UH YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THE COMMENTS WE GOT WAS REALLY WELL THOUGHT OUT. UH I THINK, CERTAINLY, WITH SOME OF THE HANDOUTS AND SOME OF THE E-MAILS AND SOME OF THE VERY CLEAR THINGS OF SAYING THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO AND THESE ARE THE CHANGES WE'D LIKE TO RECOMMEND, AND AGAIN I'M THINKING MORE IN TERMS OF I THINK STAFF'S DONE A GREAT JOB IN COLLECTING FEEDBACK AND INFORMATION BUT I'M LITTLE DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DIDN'T GET ANY CHANGES IN THE REVISIONS FROM THE MARCH DRAFT.
IT MAY BE JUST BECAUSE WE DDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO INCORPORATE THAT. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M THINKING IN TERMS OF IS WE GOT FEEDBACK AND TO PUSH THIS FORWARD AND LEAVE OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO TRY UH TO FIGURE IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES TOO IS A DISSERVICE TO THEM BECAUSE OUR JOB IS TO PROVIDE ADVICE AND CLEAR DIRECTION, SO IN MY SITUATION, I'M SITTING HERE THINKING, THE FEEDBACK WE'VE GOTTEN FROM SOME OTHER COMMISSIONERS AND SOME OF THE MORE ARTICULATED ANALYSES THAT PEOPLE HAVE DONE, ESPECIALLY COMMISSIONER AL-TURK WHO'S DONE SOME OF THAT WRK IN LOOKING AT THE DATA, MY UH SENSE IS, IS JUST WE REALLY NEED TO DO A GOOD JOB OF THIS AND GET THIS RIGHT BECAUSE THIS IS FOR THE WHOLE CITY, NOT NECESSARILY UH JUST ONE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE NEED TO KIND OF LOOK AT IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. THAT'S MY COMMENT.
>> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. >> I ALWAYS TRY TO BE VERY BRIEF AND I NEVER HAVE QUESTIONS SO I WON'T START ANY TONIGHT. I LOOK AT THIS FROM THE TOTALITY OF IT. I'M A LIFER IN DURHAM, FROM DURHAM, BORN AND RAISED AND A LOT OF WHAT WAS SAID HERE TONIGHT IS A LOT OF MY THOUGHT PROCESS ON THINGS AS I DRIVE THROUGH MY CITY, AS I CALL IT, I'M QUITE CONCERNED ABOUT 50-FOOT HOMES LIVING NEXT DOOR TO VERY SMALL HOUSES. THEY'RE VERY TOWERING AND ALSO PRIVACY INVASION AS I LOOK AT IT BECAUSE EVEN IF I HAD A PRIVACY FENCE I DON'T HAVE ANY PRIVACY BECAUSE YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE OVER IT. SO I DON'T AGREE THAT DENSITY IS GOING TO IMPROVE ANYTHING BECAUSE AS WE'VE BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS NOW AL THESE PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO DURHAM AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO KEEP BUILDING [INDISCERNIBLE] AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS AND SUPPOSED TO MAKE THINGS MORE AFFORDABLE IN DURHAM AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT THE CASE BECAUSE AS EVERYBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY TAXES WENT UP, I'M QUITE CERTAIN THAT WAS A SHOCK.
MINE WENT UP AND I HAVE SOMEWHERE TO LIVE THAT'S NOT THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE BANKING THIS OFF OF. I THINK IF WE DO NEED TO BE MORE CONSIDERATE AS NUMEROUS PEOPLE HAVE SAID ABOUT THOSE INVESTED IN THE CITY. PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE, PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE HERE, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SEEN THE GOOD TIMES AND BAD TIMES. WE TALK ABOUT BEING RESPONSIBLE BUILDERS AND THE IMPACTS IT'S GOING TO HAVE ON THE ENVIRONMENT. THE ONLY CONCERN I HEAR IS TREE CANOPY AND IMPERVIOUS SURFACES WHERE NO ONE IS CONSIDERING CARRYING CAPACITY AND WE'RE REACHING THAT GREATLY. ON A QUARTER ACRE AND BUILDING – THREE MORE IS NOT HELPFUL. IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING. IT'S GOING TO DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD IN THE LONG RUN, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO HAVE GENUINE CONCERNS ABOUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BO B IN 20 YEARS.
SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR NUMEROUS TIMES HAVE SEEN UP TIMES AN DOWN TIMES WHEN IT'S BAD IT'S BAD AND THAT'S ECONOMY-BASED, WE CN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. I DON'T KNOW THT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS IS GOING TO NECESSARILY BE THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM. SOME PEOPLE CALL THEM GRANNY FLATS. MOST PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN GRANNY FLATS CAN'T REALLY NAVIGATE A 25-FOOT CEILING IN TERMS OF MOVING UP LIKE YOU TO NAVIGATE STAIRS. THAT'S 12-16 SQUARES. BEING 48 STAIRS IS A CHALLENGE TO MY KNEES NOW, SO I' JUST SAYING. WE'RE BANKING ON WHAT SEEMS TO BE POPULAR — I DON'T DO STUDIES, I CONTINUE DO STATISTICS, I DO WHAT I SEE IN REALITY. MY PARENTS ARE FROM DURHAM, I AM FROM DURHAM, SO I KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, I KNOW BCAUSE IT HAS HAPPENED HERE BEFORE AND WE AREN'T LEARNING FROM HISTORY, WE'RE GOING TO REPEAT IT.
THAT'S GOING TO LEAD TO 40, 50, 6 O LOTS OF EMPTY HOMES THAT ARE GOING TO DETERIORATE BECAUSE NOBODY LIVES THERE. WHEN THE POPULARITY OF DURHAM FADES OUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO. SOME OF THESE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM ARE GOING TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES TO THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO RETURN HOME OR THEIR GRANDKIDS AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT. THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY THEY CAN DO THAT AND I KNOW AT THE RATE IN WHICH PROPERTY TAXES ARE INCREASING AND PEOPLE CANNOT AFFORD TO REMAIN IN THEIR HOMES AS THEY ARE NOW, WE HAVE TO BE CONSIDERATE OF THAT. WE CAN'T KEEP PROVIDING HOUSING CHOICES FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING IN WHO ARE MAKING GREATER INCOME VALUES WHEN THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE RATE OF INCOME IS NOT INCREASING. SO I THINK THAT THAT'S THE SENSIBILITY AND THE MORE WE HAVE THESE MEETINGS, THE MORE WE CAN'T TO BE INVESTED IN THIS CITY WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT. THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE BEYOND OUR CONTROL. PEOPLE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO RENOVATE THEIR HOMES DUE TO RECENT ECONOMIC ISSUES THAT ARE BEYOND THE CITY OF DURHAM'S CURRENT ISSUES AND SITUATIONS.
SO I THINK THAT THE MORE THAT WE HEAR THE RESIDENCE, THE MORE THAT WE HAVE TO KIND OF STOP ACTING IN HINDSIGHT. WE CAN'T COME BACK AND UNDO THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO EXPAND HOUSING CHOICES WHEN WE GAVE APPROVAL FOR MULTIMILLION DOLLARS COMPLEXES TO BE BUILT DOWNTOWN AND NOW WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING. NOW WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES WHEN THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE FOREFRONT TO BEGIN WITH. I THINK THT WE CAN'T RUSH TO A DECISION OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS A SITUATION WE CREATED NOW IN HINDSIGHT. I THINK WE HAVE TO TKE OUR TIME AND WE HAVE LISTEN TO THESE RESIDENCE. WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE CITIZENS OF DURHAM. WE CAN'T KEEP FORECASTING WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE 20 YEARS AGO WE DIDN'T KNOW WE WOULD BE THE MOST HAPPENING CITY ON THE EAST COAST.
[LAUGHTER] THAT'S JUST WHERE I STAND AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL G B GOING TO A MOTION NOW. >> NOT JUST YET, I UH APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS. I'M GOING TO SAY A FEW THINGS. WHAT I DO WANT TO DO, NUMBER ONE I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S COMMENTS ON THE COMMISSION AND THE SIT ENS' AS WELL. I'M VERY GLAD WE WAITED TWO CYCLES. APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU ROLLING UP YOUR SLEEVES AND COMING BACK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAD IN MARCH AND THOSE OF YOU THAT WERE HERE — TELL ME IF I GET THIS RIGHT OR NOT — WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT I SUPPORT NOVEMBER PROPOSAL, I SUPPORT MARCH PROPOSAL OR I DON'T LIKE ANY OF THEM. WHAT I HEARD TONIGHT WITH THE 60-UH DAY CONTINUANCE WAS MORE NUANCE. I HEARD MORE THOUGHTFULNESS. ALL OF US, MYSELF INCLUDED, WE'VE HAD TIME TO DIG IN.
THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO WANT THE NOVEMBER PROPOSAL, I UNDERSTAND THAT. I UH THINK THOSE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO SAY WE HAVE A PROBLEM WE NEED TO ADDRESS IT, LET'S GET STARTED. I'VE ALSO HEARD INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE EVOLVING AS THEY LEARN MORE. MS. KESSLER SAID I STARTED OUT SKEPTABLE OF AKUs AND SHE'S WORKING UP TO THAT. I'VE HEARD FROM COALITION BRING US THOUGHTFUL PROPOSALS THAT HAVE MORE DEPTH THAN WE HAD IN MARCH. MS. OR TIZ WITH HER WORK AND REACHING OUT AND TALKING TO COMMUNITY UH MEMBER WHO IS MAY NOT HAVE HAD INPUT IN MARCH.
I SAY ALL THAT TO SAY, I THINK WE'RE GETTING CLOSER. I DID WANT TO ASK A COUPLE QUESTIONS OF SOME OF THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS SPOKE TONIGHT JUST TO MAKE SURE VI A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU WERE ASKING. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO COME UP ID APPRECIATE IT, MS. SEIBEL, IF I COULD START WITH YOU AND THEN MS. ORTIZ I WAS GOING TOIN VARIETY YOU UP AS WELL.
MS. SEIBEL, I'M LOOKING AT THE STATEMENT FOR COALITION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND TRYING TO — NUMBER THREE. YOU TALK ABOUT EXPANDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING STOCK AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CITY SHOULD IMPLEMENT NEW PROGRAMS AT THE SAME TIME AS THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE PROVISIONS TO PROVIDE BOTH FINANCIAL AND TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TO HOME OWNERS AND OTHERS TO UTILIZE THESE NEW PROGRAMS. TALK MORE ABOUT WHAT YOUR THINKING IS THERE BECAUSE I HAVE SIMILAR CONCERNS. >> THERE IS A CITY AFFORDABLE HOUSING PLAN, A FIVE-YEAR PLAN, AND PART OF THE FUND WILLING COME FROM THE PROPOSED $95 MILLION HOUSING BOND WHICH ISN'T ON THE BALLOT UNTIL NOVEMBER. THERE'S A SMALL LINE ITEM THAT'S RELATIVELY SMALL FOR AFFORDABLE DWELLING UNITS AND PRESERVING NATURALLY-OCCURRING AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND I THINK THERE'S SPECIFIC FUNDING, AGAIN, A SMALL AMOUNT, FOR HOME OWNERS TO HELP THEM MAINTAIN THEIR HOMES. SO THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO ASSIST AND THEN THERE'S SOME LARGER CHUNKS OF MONEY, I THINK, TO HELP PEOPLE BUT I THINK THOSE WERE GOING TO BE LARGER APARTMENT COMPLEXES, HOPEFULLY, AFFORDABLE APARTMENT COMPLEXES.
SO I THINK THERE'S SOME FUNDING BUT IT WOULDN'T BE AVAILABLE UNTIL WELL AFTER THAT BOND REFERENDUM. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M HOPING THAT AS YOU PULL TOGETHER THE STAKEHOLDERS IT WILL BE NOT JUST THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT BUT ALSO THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. I KNOW KAREN LOTTO HAS BEEN WORKING ON THAT PLAN AND PROBABLY NEED TO CONSULT WITH CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR TO FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING TO BE FUNDED IN THAT HOUSING BOND REFERENDUM AS WELL. >> GREAT. THANK YOU. FOR STAFF, MR. STOCK – YOU MAY NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS, BUT FROM [INDISCERNIBLE] PERSPECTIVE, IS IT FEASIBLE FOR THESE TWO EFFORTS TO BE ON SIMILAR TIME FRAMES? ARE WE ON THE TRACK WHERE THIS IS WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE THIS PROPOSAL EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES HOWEVER IT LOOKS SOONER AND SUPPORT PROGRAMS COME LATER? I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE TIMING OF THESE EFFORTS.
>> TIMING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW AS WE SAID WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO AT LEAST TRY THAT WOULD IN EFFECT BE BEFORE ANY BOND PROPOSAL. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT COUNCIL CAN'T SET A DIFFERENT EFFECTIVE DATE FOR THAT. >> OKAY. THAT'S HELPFUL. THANK YOU. MS. ORTIZ IF I MAY. >> YEAH. >> I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ACTUALLY IF YOU MIND, COULD YOU WALK THROUGH YOUR FOUR-POINTS AGAIN. I WAS TAKING FRANTIC NOTES BUT I'M NOT SURE I GOT THEM RIGHT. >> SURE. I CN ALSO E-MAIL THEM TO AFTER THIS MEETING.
>> THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL AS WELL BUT ACTUALLY IF YOU DON'T MIND DOING ONE AT A TIME AND THEN I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF A QUESTION EACH ONE IF POSSIBLE. >> MAKING ADUs A MAX OF 800 SQUARE FEET BY RIGHT. BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A THOUSAND SQUARE FOT HOME WHICH A LOT OF WORKING CLASS NEIGHBORHOODS DO HAVE, THOSE MODIFIED HOMES MAKES IT MUCH LIKE SPEAKING EARLIER VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE AN ADU FOR TH AGING IN PLACE KINDS OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE THINKING OF.
800 SQUARE FEET SO WE'RE NOT PICKING ON THE LITTLE HOUSES ESPECIALLY WITH SUCH GENEROUS SIZE LOTS IN SO MANY SITUATIONS. >> FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE, EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES CURRENT PROPOSAL IS 800. SO WE DO THAT, CHECK. THANK YOU. SECOND POINT? >> THE FLAG LOTS FROM 20 FEET TO 12 FEET. WE'RE THINKING THAT ON LOTS THAT ARE LITTLE NARROWER TOWARD THE FRONT WHERE THE HOUSE IS POSITIONS ON THE LOT YOU DON'T WANT FOLKS TO FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE TO KNOCK THOSE DOWN TO ACCESS THE LOT IN THE BACK SO TO ELIMINATE SOME OF THE LOGISTICAL JIGSAW PUZZLING PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MEET THE 20-FOOT STANDARD, 12 FEET BEING MORE GRACIOUS FO THAT. >> GREAT. THAT IS ALSO IN THE CURRENT PROPOSAL. >> CHECK.
>> CHECK. >> EXCELLENT. THANK YOU. >> DUPLEXES ALLOWING THEM BY RIGHT THROUGHOUT THE URBAN TIER. >> CHECK. >> THREE CHECKS, THANK YOU. >> SH THIS IS ONE WE HERD A LOT ESPECIALLY FROM LOW INCOME COMMUNITY GROUPS THAT FEAR BEING POTENTIALLY POLICED IN HOUSES AROUND THE UNRELATED FAMILY MEMBERS EVEN THOUGH SOME PEOPLE HAVE A MIXED BACKGROUND ENFORCEMENT. THE DEFINITION OF FAMILY ABOUT NO MORE THAN THREE UNRELATED PERSONS IN A HOME WHICH IS DISCRIMINATORY BASED ON PRIVILEGING DEFINING FAMILY. SO FROM THREE PEOPLE TO FIVE PEOPLE. >> I AM NOT A LAWYER SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE CITY HAS JURISDICTION OVER OR AND WHERE. >> NOT CONTAINED IN THESE PROPOSALS. >> IF YOU DON'T MIND ONE MORE QUESTION.
PART OF THE REASON I'M ASKING IS THIS IS MY RECOLLECTION OF YOUR COMMENTS I WAS SITTING HERE THINKING, HERE ARE THREE ITEMS THAT ARE IN THE CURRENT PROPOSAL, THERE'S A LOT MORE IN THE CURRENT PROPOSAL AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF CONCERNS RAISED ABOUT. WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD — I KNOW THIS IS AN UNFAIR QUESTION — >> IT'S FINE.
>> BUT IN A MINUTE OR TWO IF YOU DON'T MIND WHAT YOU'VE HEARD IN YOUR WORK THAT YOU COULD HAVE PUT MORE THINGS IN HERE AND SAYS THERE'S A LOT OF AGREEMENT ON EIGHT OF THEM. YOU GAVE US FOUR AND THREE OF THEM ARE IN HERE. ANY CONCERNS THAT YOU ARE HEARING ABOUT WHAT IS REMAINING OUR PROPOSAL. >> THAT IT'S TOO MUCH, TOO COMPLICATED, TOO FAST WITHOUT DUE PROCESS FOR THE REST. I LOVE WHAT LARISSA WAS SAYING ABOUT WANTING TO MAKE THUR SURE — WHEN I'VE FWHN COMMUNITY EXPLAINING THIS I'VE BEEN — IN UNDERSTANDING HOW I CANNOT MAKE THESE KINDS OF THINGS WORK BUT YOU HAVE TO PAIR NOT JUST ZONING POLICY CHANGES LIKE YOU CAN'T JUST DO THOSE ON YOUR OWN, YOU HAVE TO PAIR THEM WITH GOOD PROGRAMMING, EDUCATION, TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, THAT'S ONE BAR.
OBVIOUSLY THE POLICY CHANGES, AND YOU ALSO NEED FINANCIAL TOOLS AND THAT CAN LOOK LIKE A WHAT I'VE SENSED IS THAT PART O- COMMUNITY FEELS LIKE THERE IS IS LACK OF TRUST THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SECURE THOSE THINGS IF THE WHOLE PACKAGE WERE PASSED AT ONCE. SO WHEREAS TRADITIONALLY — AND I'M GOING USE LANGUAGE HERE THAT'S NOT MEANT TO SPEAK TO ANYONE IN THE ROOM MEANT TO TALK ABOUT HISTORY. TRADITIONALLY DENSITY HS BEEN USED AND CAPTURES AND WIELDED BY EXCLUSION OF OTHER PEOPLE, AND IN THIS CASE THERE'S A SENSE THAT PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO HOLD IT HOSTAGE TO ENSURE THE INCLUSION OF MORE PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE WHAT THESE DIFFERENT DENSITY OPPORTUNITIES MIGHT MEAN FOR THEM BUT MAYBE AREN'T ABLE TO REALIZE THOSE OPTIONS WITHOUT THE PROGRAMMATIC AND FINANCIAL TOOLS ASSISTING THEM. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> IT DOES. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU, PERSONALLY, BASED ON THESE PAST FEW MONTHS OF DILIGENT WORK TALKING TO LOTS OF INDIVIDUALS — >> OH MY GOD, I'M NOT PAID BY ANYONE TO DO THIS TO BE CLEAR — [LAUGHTER] >> YOU WOULD SAY, WOULD YOU ASK US TO OPPOSE THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE THREE ITEMS THAT ARE IN HERE THAT YOU BELIEVE ARE POSITIVE, THERE ARE THREE OUT OF THE FOUR ITEMS YOU RAISED TONIGHT, THREE ARE IN HERE, WOULD YOU SAY TO US, APPROVE THIS AS IS, BUT WOULD YOU SAY, THIS IS TOO MUCH TOO FAST EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE THREE THINGS I UH LIKE? >> TOO MUCH, TOO FAST, TAKE THE FOUR THINGS AND SUGGEST THOSE IN YOUR NOTES TO COUNCIL AND LET THEM MAKE THE ONE OR TWO WORD CHOICES AND CHANGES THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THIS TO FLOW THROUGH WITH THOSE FOUR-POINTS IN THE TEXT.
>> THANK YOU. I APRECIATE YOUR WILLINGNESS TO HAVE THIS DIALOGUE. >> NO WORRIES. >> SO BACK TO THE COMMISSIONERS. I'LL JUST TELL YOU WHEN I CAME HERE TONIGHT KNOWING THAT THIS WAS GOING IN AUGUST REGARDLESS, RIGHT WE CAN VOTE TONIGHT, WE CAN CONTINUE THIS FOR ONE MORE CYCLE; I WAS INCLINED TO VOTE TONIGHT BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO COUNCIL REGARDLESS. THERE WERE ZERO CHANGES MADE BY STAFF IN THE LAST 60 DAYS.
SAY THAT WITHOUT JUDGMENT, IT'S JUST A FACT. SO IT LEADS KNOW THINK UH THERE'S NO CHANGES COMING IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS. ALL OF THESE FINE INDIVIDUALS WILL BE REQUIRED MORE THAN LIKELY TO COME BACK YET AGAIN NEXT MONTH. WE WOULD HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING. WE MIGHT HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION. I COULD BE CHANGED ON THAT. WE HAD DIFFERENT CONVERSATION TONIGHT THAN WE HAD 60 DAYS AGO. I THINK WE HAD A BETTER CONVERSATION TONIGHT BECAUSE WE'RE UNDERSTANDING THIS MORE. WE'RE GETTING GOOD IDEAS, WE'RE GETTING NEW — NUANCE, STARTING TO FIGURE THIS OUT. I WOULD STILL RATHER VOTE ON THIS TONIGHT, PERSONALLY. WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO BECAUSE I THINK UH IT'S THE EASY WAY OUT IS FOR US TO HAVE A STRAIGHT UP OR DOWN VOTE ON THIS PROPOSAL.
I WAS RATHER US DO THE HARD WORK OF MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE THE TIME OR THE ABILITY TO PULL THAT OFF TONIGHT, TO ACTUALLY MAKE A PROPOSAL TO COUNCIL THAT WOULD SAY WE WOLD LIKE TO YOU DO THIS FOR THE EXPANDING HOUSING CHOICES. I SAID ALL THAT TO SAY I THINK CYCLE, IT DOES NOT CLANG THE TIMING OF THIS GOING TO COUNCIL. QUESTION FOR STAFF, I BELIEVE NEXT MONTH'S AGENDA IS FAIRLY LIGHT; IS THAT CORRECT? >> CORRECT. MIGHT HAVE A COUPLE CASES. >> MIGHT HAVE TWO. >> COUPLE MEANS TWO. >> TWO, COUPLE, YES. >> [LOW AUDIO]. >> TENTATIVETY, TWO. >> COULD BE MORE BUT MAYBE LESS. >> COULD BE MORE. >> COULD BE MORE THAN TWO. >> YES. RIGHT NOW THEY'RE PRETTY CONFIDENT IT'S GOING TO BE TWO, MAYBE ONE OR TWO MORE COULD SNEAK ON IF THEY'RE READY TO GO, YES.
>> [LOW AUDIO]. [LAUGHTER] >> THANK YOU. I WANT TO HEAR FROM COMMISSIONERS. ALSO RECOGNIZE IT'S 20 TO NIE BUT I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT AND WE GOT TO STAY AND DO THIS. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> I AGREE. I WAS JUST WONDERING THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP. MY THINKING IS THAT EVEN WITH CONTINUANCE FOR AN ADDITIONAL CYCLE, I THINK ANY FEEDBACK THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET IS GOING TO FOLLOW WITHIN THIS BUCKET OF CONCERNS THAT HAS BEEN EXPRESSED OVER THE SINCE MARCH SO IT'LL JUST BE THE WEIGH INOF MORE PEOPLE. QUESTION TO STAFF IS YOU'VE PROVIDED RATIONALES FOR WHY YOU'VE PRESENTED FOR WHAT WE'RE HAVING DISCUSSION ABOUT, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME UNLIKELY THAT ANYTHING WILL CHANGE EVEN WITH CONTINUANCE.
YOU'LL PROBABLY COME BACK WITH WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TONIGHT SO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO EVEN GO ANOTHER CYCLE. >> I WILL SAY, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE. THE REASON WHY THERE WERE NO CHANGES TO THIS PROPOSAL IS WE WENT OUT AND DID MORE ENGAGEMENT OVER THE LAST TWO MONTHS. WE HEARD A LOT OF THE SAME. THE CAMPS ARE PRETTY WELL ESTABLISHED EITHER FOLKS WANT MORE, FOLKS WANT MORE TIME OR FOLKS ARE OKAY WITH THE PROPOSAL AS IT IS. I DON'T SEE THAT CHANGING IN THE NEXT MONTH. AGREE WITH CHAIR BUZBY THAT HAVING THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMEND SOMETHING CITY COUNCIL WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US SO IF THAT TAKE ANOTHER MONTH, WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT. >> THANK YOU. ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS COMMISSIONER JOHNSON? >> I GUESS I'LL HEAR FROM — >> COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS.
>> QUESTION, WHICH IS RARE. IF WE COME BACK 30 DAYS IS THERE YET ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING OR IS THIS MERELY FOR US TO FORMULATE OUR THOUGHTS AS A COMMITTEE AND AS A COMMISSION TO WHAT WE PLAN TO SUGGEST GOING FORWARD BECAUSE I THINK NOW WE WOULD BE ENTERING A THIRD CYCLE OF BRINGING THESE VERY SAME VOICES BACK AND THEN, YET AGAIN, THEY HAVE TO GO BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL? >> GREAT QUESTION. STAFF ANSWER THAT. >> TO CONTINUE IT FO ONE MORE MONTH THE PUBLIC HEARING WOULD HAVE TO SAY OPEN. THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU TO TAKE MORE TESTIMONY. [LAUGHTER] >> I'M OKAY WITH THAT. >> ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS? >> NO. >> COMMISSIONER MILLER AND THEN COMMISSIONER MORGAN.
>> ON THAT SUBJECT, I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT TOO AND THANK YOU FOR THE ANSWER. I DON'T LIKE TO PLAY FAST AND LOOSE WITH THE COMMUNITY. IF WE DO CONTINUE IT, IF THERE IS SOMEBODY WHO HAS NOT SPOKEN BEFORE AND HAS SOMETHING THEY WANT US TO HEAR, AT LEAST FOR A FEW MINUTES, I WOULD MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T TURN ANYBODY WHO HAS SOMETHING NEW TO SAY OR SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT SAID ANYTHING THAT WE WOULD TURN THEM AWAY. I WOULD BE AGAINST THAT. I'M AGAINST CONTINUING HEARING THAT WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO HEAR, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WHAT OTHER PLANNING COMMISSIONS DO — AND THERE'S ALL KINDS OF FORMS AND NOT WEREN'T RIGHT WAY — THERE ARE PLANNING COMMISSIONS THAT MEET AND THEY HAMMER OUT LIKE THE MAJORITY OPINION. WE DON'T DO THAT. WE VOTE. THERE'S A MAJORITY THAT WINS THE VOTE AND SOMETIMES WE RECOMMEND APPROVAL, SOMETIMES WE RECOMMEND DENIALS, BUT AFTER THAT, OUR RATIONALES ALL COME DIFFERENT PEOPLE SAYING DIFFERENT THINGS.
FREQUENTLY WE'VE DISCUSSED IT TOGETHER, HEARD THE SAME THINGS. BECAUSE WE DO IT THAT WAY DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE COULDN'T ATTEMPT WHATEVER OUR VOTE MAY BE TO COME WITH A MORE UNIFIED STATEMENT OF WHY WE VOTED THE WAY WE VOTED AND TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ALSO BECAUSE WE'RE AN ADVISORY BODY. OUR VOTE ISN'T OUR ONLY RECOMMENDATION. WE COULD SAY WE VOTED AGAINST THIS BECAUSE BUT IF IT HAD THIS, THIS, THIS AND THIS IN IT WE WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR IT AND I THINK THAT KIND OF ADVICE IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO US, WE JUST DON'T DO IT, AND USUALLY BECAUSE IT'S A SINGLE ZONING CASE, SINGLE PARCEL, A SIMPLER SET OF ISSUES.
THIS IS BIG. UM, IF WE — I WOULD LOVE TO — I TRIED TO WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING EVERYBODY SAID OVER TW HEARINGS. I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK THROUGH THAT AND PROCESS THROUGH MY MIND AND COME BACK WITH A PROPOSAL OF MY OWN MAKING AND LET YOU DEBATE IT AND KILL IT AND LISTEN TO OTHER PROPOSALS AND SEE IF WE CAN PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER WHERE WE SPAK AS MERELY AS POSSIBLE IF NOT WITH ONE VOICE, WITH A MAJORITY VOICE.
SO I'M IN FAVOR OF CONTINUING THE HEARING WITH THE UNDERSTANDING WE'RE NOT JUST GOING TO OPEN IT BACK UP AGAIN AND LET EVERYBODY SPEAK, BUT IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY HAS SOMETHING NEW TO SAY, THEN TO HEAR A FEW PEOPLE AND THEN REALLY WORK AMONGST OURSELVES TO COME UP WITH SOME — IF IT'S POSSIBLE AND IT MAY NOT BE — UNIFIED ADVICE TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND BOARD OF COUNTY UH COMMISSIONERS ABOUT HOW UH THIS IS GOING TO PROCEED/GO FORWARD. OF COURSE THEY CAN IGNORE OUR ADVISE BUT I DON'T THINK THEY CAN FAULT US FOR HAVING TO DO THIS WAY. >> I UH YIELD MY TIME TO THE YOUNG LADY IN THE BACK. >> SORRY.
>> GOING FORWARD. SHE HAD SOME EXCELLENT POINTS AND ADVISORY STATEMENTS SO I >> COMMISSIONER MILLER. >> I'M DONE. I WOULD FAVOR PUTTING IT OFF FOR A MONTH. >> COMMISSIONER MORGAN, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> THANK YOU, CHAIR. I THINK SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT IN WRITTEN FORM FROM SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CAN REALLY HELP US GUIDE THE KIND OF RESPONSE THAT WE WULD WANT TO HAVE. I AGREE WITH WHAT COMMISSIONER MILLER IS SAYING TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A UNIFIED DIRECTION TO CITY UH COUNCIL SO THAT THEY CAN LOOK AT IT AND MAKE A MUCH MORE INFORMED UNDERSTANDING OR DECISION ON WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, AND I THINK SOME OF THE FEEDBACK HERE IS EXCELLENT. I MEAN, I'M LOOKING AT MS. KESSLER'S WRITEUP AND HER CONCERNS. LOOKING AT MS. WILSON'S WRITEUP THAT SHE HANDED OUT TO US SAYING IT'S VERY POINTED, HERE'S THE THINGS YOU WOULD DO IF YOU VOTE NO, HERE'S THINGS TO YOU IF YOU VOTE YES.
WE COULD ALMOST TAKE THAT AND EXPAND ON IT AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING WE CAN ALL AGREE UPON. IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE TO CITY COUNCIL WHEN THEY'RE REVIEWING THIS WITH THIS FEEDBACK AND WITH THIS ADVICE, I THINK WE'RE DOING A GOOD JOB AS A PLANNING COMMISSION. I DO THINK, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT APPROACH IS TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A COMMON THING. WE COULD DO IT AS PART OF VOTE IT UP OR DOWN AND PROVIDE OUR COMMENTS AND WE COULD STILL DO A MAJORITY OPINION THAT WAY TOO, SO THAT'S ANOTHER OPTION TO CONSIDER, BUT I'M IN FAVOR OF SOME KIND OF UNIFIED STRUCTURE OF COMMENTS BECAUSE TIS IS BIG.
>> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER AL-TURK. THEN COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. >> THANK YOU, CHAIR. I LIKE THIS IDEA IN PRINCIPLE BUT BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T DONE IT, I'M CURIOUS IF YOU COULD WALK ME THROUGH HOW IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE, WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. >> THAT'S MY QUESTION. >> WOULD WE ALL COME WITH OUR IDEAS SH HASH IT OUT HERE? WOULD WE DESIGNATE — BECAUSE WE CANNOT MEET BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, SO IF OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE IDEAS ABOUT HOW THIS WOULD WORK IN PRACTICE I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THAT. MY PREFERENCE IS TO GO BACK TO PLANNING STAFF AND TO NEIGHBORHOODS AND TO WORK THAT WAY. >> RIGHT. >> BUT I GUESS WE CANNOT DO THAT OR WE CAN VOTE NO AND SAY — OR WE CAN RECOMMEND THAT, I GUESS.
NOW I'M JUST SPEAKING. >> IT'S A FAIR QUESTION. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE. WE AS COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE TO DO THIS IN A PUBLIC SETTING, SO WE WILL NOT BE MEETING SOMEWHERE ELSE AS A COMMISSION TO COME UP WITH A PROPOSAL, BUT THAT SAID, I WOULD LIKE TO RECOGNIZE COMMISSIONER BRINE WHO HAS SERVED FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AND THERE MAY BE PREVIOUS EXAMPLES. >> THERE IS A MECHANISM WHICH THE COMMISSION HAS USED IN THE PAST, USED IT IN PARTICULAR WHEN WE WERE DOING OUR MEMO OF DRESSING THE DROUGHT SITUATION SOME YEARS BACK. THE COMMISSION CAN DISSOLVE ITSELF INTO A COMMITTEE AS A WHOLE. WE'RE STILL HERE, STILL IN PUBLIC, BUT IT MAKES IT SIMPLE. WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE MOTIONS TO VOTE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE CAN MAKE A DECISION AND JUST VOTE BY RAISING YOUR HAND OR SOMETHING. WHEN WE'VE COBBLED SOMETHING TOGETHER THEN WE RISE FROM BEING A COMMITTEE TO BEING A COMMISSION AND THEN WE VOTE ON OUR FINAL PRODUCT.
THAT'S ONE WAY TO GO ABOUT IT. THAT'S BEEN USED BEFORE. IF I WERE GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONSERS MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO SUSPECT WORK ON THIS PROCESS RIGHT NOW, WORK ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, FIRST, AND GATHER A NEIGHBORHOOD PANEL AND LET THEM WORK ONTHE DETAILS ALONG WITH STAFF AS PART OF THE REDOING THE COMP PLAN. I'M A LITTLE HESITANT TO TRY TO GET INTO TOO MANY OTHER DETAILS BECAUSE AS THINGS GET TALKED THROUGH AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL, YOU KNOW, THINGS COULD CHANGE. SO, BASICALLY I WOULD SAY GIVE THEM MORE TIME. PERIOD. >> LET ME ASK STAFF. [LAUGHTER] COMMISSION BRIAN, WE DON'T HAE CONTROL OVER THERE AT THE END OF AND WE HAVE THIS UNTIL THE END – OF NEXT MONTH'S MEETING. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT IF I WAS GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION COUNCIL, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE WE DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH. >> OKAY. >> COMMISSIONER JOHNSON. YOU WERE RECOGNIZED NEXT, JUST GIVING YOU YOUR CHANCE. >> I'VE BEEN LEANING FROM THE RECOMMENDATION OF VOTING STANDPOINT MORE FROM COMMISSIONER BRINE'S STANDPOINT OF MAYBE WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BRING WHAT OUR PROPOSAL LOOKS LIKE. I THINK THAT WHAT HAS BEEN MADE CLEAR HERE IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT SO WE HIGHLIGHT IN WHATEVER THE MAJORITY OR WHATEVER IT IS. THESE ARE ASPECTS OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN THUS FAR THAT HAVE GAINED THAT HAS CONSENSUS SHOULD BE IN IT BUT I THINK SUSPENDING BASICALLY VOTING NO OR WHAT NOT, NO WITH THE CAVEAT OF THIS IS WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION GOING FORWARD.
I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GIVE OUR BRAND O WHAT THE EHC MEANS IS SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING BUT I'M ON BOARD — I WAS RELUCTANT FOR CONTINUATION BUT GIVEN THE CONVERSATION, I UH THINK THAT CAN WORK. >> ALL RIGHT. >> GREAT. I WILL SAUS JUST SAY AND STAFF MAY OFFER INPUT, THERE'S NOT A DIRECT QUESTION BUT MY CONCERN WITH THAT APPROACH IS THAT THIS STARTED BECAUSE THE COUNCIL, I UNDERSTAND, ASKED FOR A PROCESS, AND IF WE COME BACK AND SAY WE ARE ASKING FOR YOU TO JUST KEEP HAVING MORE PROCESS, I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT THEY WILL LISTEN AND TEN WE'RE NOT GIVING THEM AN ALTERNATIVE, THEY'RE GIVING THEM THIS PROPOSAL.
I'M NOT GOING TO SAY WE'RE CONTINUING TODAY AND I THINK WE THAT BECAUSE I WOULD FEAR THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY THEN IT'S BASICALLY JUST THE SAME AS A NO VOTE AND THEY UH CAN PICK IT BACK UP, TAKE IT. OBVIOUSLY LISTENING TO UH ALL OF YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT I UH THINK UH IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO GIVE THEM AN ALTERNATIVE IF WE'VE HEARD ONE. HOWEVER, IF WE DO CONTINUE THIS FOR ANOTHER MONTH I HOPE ALL OF YOU WILL CONTINUE TO DO YOUR WORK AND MAYBE HAVE LATE ILL BIT OF A MASHUP BECAUSE THERE SEEMS LIKE THERE'S TWO OR THREE WORKING GROUPS — YOU NOW KNOW WHO EACH OTHER ARE, SO I WOULD URGE YOU TO CONSIDER REACHING OUT TO EACH OTHER IN THE INTERVENING TIME. COMMISSIONER MILLER. >> SO I AGREE WITH YOU AND WITH COMMISSIONER BRINE, AND I THINK THAT IN A REZONING WE VOTE UP OR DOWN.
THIS IS A TEXT AMENDMENT. AND A WE CAN VOTE IT UP OR DOWN, BUT WE COULD ALSO AMONG OURSELVES A MOTION THAT SAID THAT THERE'S A PROCESS PROBLEM AND WORK THROUGH IT AND SAY HERE'S OUR ADVICE TO THE PROCESS PROBLEM. BUT IF YOU'RE DISINCLINED TO TAKE THAT ADVICE AND YOU'RE GOING TO VOTE ON IT THEN HERE ARE THE DETAILED CHANGES OR THAT WE THINK NEED TO BE MADE. HERE ARE THE PROBLEMS, ETC. WE CAN TRY UH TO COME UP WITH THAT TOGETHER. BECAUSE I AGREE WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK OURSELVES AND IT HASN'T JUST BEEN HERE. I KNOW I'VE BEEN TO HALF A DOZEN MEETINGS WHERE MR.
AL-TURK WAS PRESENT AND AND YOU WERE PRESENT AND E HAN WAS PRESENT. I DO NOT WANT TO PROCEED NOW OR IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS IN A WAY THAT MAKES EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE IRRELEVANT. I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO COME TOGETHER AND I DON'T SEE WHY WE CAN'T PLEAD IN THE ALTERNATIVE. I THINK WE CAN DO THAT AND BY SPEAKING AS NEARLY AS POSSIBLE OR AT LEAST BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE, THEN I THINK WE CAN GIVE ADVICE TO THE COUNCIL THAT WILL BE RECEIVED MORE POWERFULLY IF WE DO NOT CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT.
THAT'S WHY I'M WILLING TO GO ANOTHER 30 DAYS AND IN THE MEANTIME THOUGH NOT JUST STHOE SHOW UP HERE 30 DAYS FROM NOW AND PICK UP WHERE WE LEFT OFF; TO START THINKING ABOUT IT. I DID WANT TO ASK STAFF A QUESTION ABOUT RULES OF PROCEDURE IF I MAY. IF WE WERE TO CREATE A COMMITTEE OF ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE PEOPLE BUT LESS THAN A MAJORITY, COULD THAT COMMITTEE MEET WITHOUT HAVING TO TRIGGER THE COMPLICATED BUSINESS OF ADVERTISING NOTICE? >> SO, YES. THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE AND PER YOUR RULES OF PROCEDURE YOU CAN FROM TIME TO TIME CREATE COMMITTEES.
IT DOES SAY FROM TIME TO TIME AS NEED ARISES THE COMMISSION MAY ESTABLISH COMMITTEES. THE COMMISSION SHALL SHORT EVERY COMMITTEE AND EVERY COMMITTEE SHALL REPORT AS IT'S DIRECTED TO DO BY THE COMMISSION. COMMITTEE APPOINTMENT CAN BE DIRECTOR AGREES A COMMITTEE ANT- CONSISTS OF FIVE OR LESS WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. WE WOULD STILL HAVE TO ADVERTISE IT BUT THAT MODE OF ADVERTISING IS NOT THE SAME. IT WOULD BE ON OUR WEB SITE TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNEW WHEN AND WHERE. >> I'M NOT PROPOSING A SERET MEETING OR SECRET COMMITTEE. THE REASON I'M INTERESTED IN THIS IS IF WE DON'T DO THAT OR IF SOMEBODY ISN'T ACTING SOMETHING TO BRING US THEN WE'RE GOING TO SPEND A LOT OF FRUSTRATING TIME IN A SETTING WHICH I THINK IS PARTICULARLY TERRIBLE FOR DELIBERATIONS AMONG A GROUP OF 15 OR MORE PEOPLE.
I HATE TIS DAIS. THAT WE CAN HAVE A THING WHERE WE TALK TO EACH OTHER, BUT IT WOULD BE EASIER IF THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR WERE TO APPOINT A MINORITY OF US TO BRING US TALKING POINTS AND SO THAT IF WE CONTINUE IT, WE HAVE A POINT OF BEGINNING AND WE'RE NOT ALL WORKING FROM SCRATCH. >> I WILL SAY I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT APPROACH AND I THINK THAT ALLOWS US TO HAVE SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE DIFICULT TO HAVE WHEN WE'RE HERE DELIBERATING IN REAL TIME.
COMMISSIONER GIBBS. >> QUICK QUESTION. WHEN DO WE AS A BODY GET TO VOTE ON THIS PROPOSAL? >> WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US IS THE ABILL UHTY TO VOTE TONIGHT OR TO CONTINUE FOR ONE CYCLE, BUT IN ADDITION, WE CAN ALSO CREATE A COMMITTEE THAT CAN THEN WORK WITH THE STAFF THAT VICE CHAIR HYMAN AND I WOULD APPOINT THAT WOULD BE A MINORITY OF THESE MEMBERS, BUT WE COULD THEN DO WORK IN THE INTERVENING TIME. >> I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY PROPOSAL, I MEANT THIS COMMITTEE'S WORK. WHEN THAT IS DONE, DO WE AS A BODY EACH ONE OF US GET TO VOTE ON IT? >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> WHEN? >> THAT WOULD BE 30 DAS FROM NOW. >> IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AT NEXT MONTH'S MEETING. >> EVERYTHING HINGES ON 30 DAYS. >> COMMISSIONER MILLER. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. >> YOU MAY AND I'LL LEAVE MOMENT FOR DEBATE IF AYONE HS QUESTIONS. >> I MOVE THAT WE CONTINUE THE HEARING UNTIL THE COMMISSION'S REGULARLY-SCHEDULED MEETING IN JUNE AND THAT IN THE INTERVAL THAT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE COMMISSION'S RULES THAT THE COMMISSION CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR APPOINT A COMMITTEE OF NO MORE THAN FIVE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION AND THE CHARGE TO THAT GROUP WOULD BE TO BRING THE LARGER BODY AT THAT JUNE MEETING A PROPOSED STATEMENT OF ADVICE TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON THE PROPOSED EHC ZONE CHANGES, ZONING TEXT CHANGES, AND THAT AT A MINIMUM THAT ADVICE SHOULD ADDRESS CONCERNS ABOUT PROCESS AND THAT IT MAY ALSO CONCERN INDIVIDUAL ITEMS AS MR.
BRINE CALLED IT, PRODUCT, IN THE EHC. >> SECOND. >> SO THIS MOTION HAS BEEN PROPERLY MOVED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. THAT WAS A LONG MOTION SO I WANT TO GIVE TIME FOR DEBATE OR QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER AL-TURK. >> COULD WE AMEND THE MOTION TO SAY A MINORITY OF MEMBERS BUT NO MORE THAN FIVE? >> I UH CHOSE FIVE BECAUSE WE HAVE 12 MEMBERS AT THE MOMENT AND WE'LL NOT HAVE 14 UNTIL THE EARLIEST THAT COULD OCCUR WOULD BE THE NEXT MEETING. >> GREAT. OKAY. >> GIVEN THAT, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE MOTION? >> YES. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? >> JUST A SECOND. >> COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS HAS SECONDED IT. >> THANK YOU. >> HEARING NONE, WE'LL CALL TO QUESTION ROLL CALL VOTE ON THE MOTION, PLEASE. [ROLL CALL VOTE]. >> THAT IS UNANIMOUS. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY JUST BEFORE I'M SURE WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE BREAK BECAUSE I KNOW MOST OF YOU ARE GOING TO DEPART.
WE HAVE A FEW MIENL ITEMS. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. AS YOU HEARD, YOU SHOULD WATCH, I GUESS, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S WEB SITE BECAUSE WE WILL NOTICE WHEN THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS WILL BE TAKING PLACE AND WE DO WANT YOU TO CONTINUE TO THINK ABOUT OFFER YOUR FEEDBACK, IT'S HELPFUL. AS SAID, IF YOU WANT TO CONNECT WITH ADDITIONAL FOLKS THAT YOU'VE NOT BEEN TALKING TO AND WORKING WITH, I THINK IT'S GOING TO MAKE ALL OF US MUCH HAPPIER AND HELP US CONTINUE TO COME UP WITH A PRODUCT THAT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE MUCH HAPPIER WITH THAT'LL HELP DURHAM. THANK YOU ALL.
TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE BREAK. >> IF FELLOW COMMISSIONERS CAN RETURN TO THE FRONT. [LAUGHTER] EVERYONE ELSE, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION, IF YOU CAN MOVE INTO THE HALLWAY PLEASE. WE HAVE THREE ITEMS FOR NEW BUSINESS AND THE FIRST IS MS. YOUNG WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE. IF FOLKS CAN GO INTO THE HALLWAY PLEASE, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH OUR BUSINESS. >> OR SIT DOWN AND BE QUIET. >> MS. YOUNG. >> SARA YOUNG WITH PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU A BRIEF UPDATE ON OUR STATUS WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ENGAGEMENT CONSULTANT, WE CONTRACTED WITH PLANNINGNEXT. THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN ON SIGHT WANTS IN PERSON, HAD A FULL DAY KIND OF WORKING SESSION WITH THE STAFF. WE'VE SET UP WEEKLY CONFERENCE CALLS BETWEEN OUR IN-PERSON MEETINGS WITH THEM. >> WHAT THEY DO. >> GIVE IT A SECOND FOR THE NOISE TO DIEDOWN. >> IF WE CAN CLOSE THAT LAST DOOR WE'LL BE IN GOOD SHAPE. >> [INDISCERNIBLE]. >> SO THE TEAM WE ARE GETTING CONSISTS OF JAMIE GREEN WHO IS THE PRICIPAL. HE HA A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME DEDICATED TO THIS PROJECT. SARAH JORNO IS THE PRIMARY PROJECT MANAGER WORKING WITH US DIRECTLY.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT STAFF. IN ADDITION WE HAVE DR. ER MA — >> THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WE MET — >> RIGHT. >> NAMES ARE FAMILIAR TO E ME. >> EXACT PEOPLE THAT CAME — >> IS SHE FROM, SHE'S HERE IN DURHAM BUT WORKS IN RALEIGH. >> THAT'S CORRECT OR WORKS — >> THE OTHER WAY AROUND? >> WE'VE MET WITH THEM, CONTINUING TO MEET WITH THEM. CURRENTLY WE'RE HARSHING OUT DETAILS OF A SCHEDULE WE CAN AGREE ON. LOOKS LIKE OUR FIRST PUBLIC ROUND OF ENGAGEMENT WILL BE FALL PROBABLY IN OCTOBER. THIS IS TENTATIVELY. WE'RE GOING TO TRY AND DO SEVERAL THINGS ONE OF WHICH IS COORDINATE OUR EVENTS AND ACTIVITIES WITH OTHER EVENTS AND ACTIVITIES GOING ON THROUGHOUT THE CITY TO KIND OF MAXIMIZE AND ALSO TRY AND MINIMIZE FOLKS' ENGAGEMENT FATIGUE OF CONSTANTLY BEING ASKED — >> PEOPLE GET TIRED OF THIS? >> SOME PEOPLE DO.
[LAUGHTER] THERE IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF COORDINATION. THERE IS ADDITIONALLY YOU MAY ALL THAT WE TALKED ABOUT PROGRAM WE'RE CALLING NEIGHBORHOOD AMBASSADORS WHICH IS HOW WE PLAN TO DO SPECIFIC OUTREACH AND ENGAGEMENT TO FOLKS THAT ARE UNDER REPRESENTED THAT TYPICALLY DO NOT PARTICIPANT. >> SO LIKE MS. ORTIZ? >> RIGHT. THAT PROCESS WE STILL ARE WORKING OUT DETAILS OF HOW ARE THOSE PEOPLE GOING TO BE RECRUITED, COMPENSATED. WE'RE WORKING ON BASICALLY JB DESCRIPTIONS FOR THEM TO MAKE IT REALLY CLEAR WHAT THEIR ROLE IS IN THE PROJECT. WE ARE ALSO SETTING UP COMMUNICATIONS COMMITTEE AND AN OUTREACH COMMITTEE. PURPOSE OF THE COMMUNICATION COMMITTEE IS TO BASICALLY CRAFT MESSAGES, MARKETING, ETC, TO GET THE WOD OUT, CREATE ALL THE MATERIALS, THE BRANDING, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. THINK, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC AFFAIRS, PIOs, FOLKS WITH KIND OF THAT SORT OF EXPERTISE TO HELP US DO THAT. THE OUTREACH COMMITTEE WILL BE A GROUP OF FOLKS THAT TELLS US WHERE TO SEND THE MESSAGES.
ONE GROUP CRAFT MESSAGING, ANOTHER GROUP HELPING US MAKE CONNECTIONS. WE'VE NOT FULLY SETTLED ON IF THE AMBASSADORS ARE PRT OF THAT GROUP. I'M SHARING THIS TO LET YOU KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF DETAILS TRYING TO WORK OUT AND THAT IS PROBABLY WHAT THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS WILL ENTAIL, KIND OF FIGURING ALL THAT OUT. HOPEFULLY WE WILL LAUNCH WITH PUBLIC EVENT IN THE FALL. >> IS THERE — MAY I? >> YOU MAY. >> IS THERE A POSSIBILITY, BECAUSE FOR MOST OF THE PEOPLE HERE IN DURHAM THE CONCEPT OF COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS THE ONE WE'RE CHANGING.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY LIKE PAUL NORVY WHO WENT THROUGH A VERY PROCESS, A COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING PROCESS SO SUCCESSFUL THAT THE PLAN WON AN AWARD INSIDE THE CONTEXT THAT WE ALL WORK WITH IN NORTH CAROLINA BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME ENABLING LEGISLATION. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY FROM WINCE TOM SALEM COME AND SAY THIS IS WHAT OUR PLAN LOOKS LIKE BECAUSE I FEEL TRAPPED INTO THE DURHAM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF COMPREHENSIVE PLANS ARE DEFINED BY ITS EDGES AN I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOMEBODY COME AND SAY HERE'S ONE FROM A CITY NOT UNLIKE DURHAM THAT IS EXCEEDS OR THOSE EDGES. IT'S LIKE I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY, OH, I HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF IT THAT WAY. IS THAT A POSSIBILITY? >> IT IS. >> EITHER AT A MEET ORRING OR PERHAPS IN ONE OF THE TRAINING SESSIONS? >> IT DEFINITELY IS POSSIBILITY, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR THE COMMISSION. >> JUST THE COMMISSION. AT LEAST AT THIS POINT? >> STAFF HAS ATUALLY DONE A FAIR AMOUNT OF RESEARCH ON OTHER COMPREHENSIVE PLAN INCLUDING IN THE STATE, JUST NOT SAY LEN, BUT OTHERS AND DO PROs AND CONs OF EACH ONE.
WE'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. >> THANK YOU. >> OTHER COMMISSIONERS? IT'LL BE GOOD TO HAVE COMMISSIONER MILLER ESCAPE THE DURHAM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WITH A LITTLE HELP. >> THIS SOUNDS GREAT. WE AS COMMISSIONERS HAVE INDICATED WANTING A BIGGER ROLE OF SOME SORT AND IT MAY LOOK SIMILAR TO WHAT WE JUST DID ON THINK THAT IS A QUESTION FOR I- ANOTHER TIME SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY AGAIN THAT I'VE HEARD FROM OUR CONVERSATIONS THE INTEREST ROLE, SO WE LOOK FORWARD TO – CONTINUING THAT. THANK YOU. >> THS WOULD HAPPEN WHEN I'M GOING OFF THE BOARD. [LAUGHTER] >> YOU KNOW WHERE WE LIVE. [LAUGHTER] >> I UH HOPE YOU WILL STILL STAY ENGAGED.
>> I CERTAINLY WILL. >> TWO OTHER ITEMS AD. WE DO HAVE TWO RESOLUTIONS FOR COMMISSIONERS. I'M JUST GOING TO STAY HERE BECAUSE — >> FINE. >> WE HAVE A RESOLUTION AND APPRECIATION OF MS. SATTERFIELD WHO SERVED WITH US FOR SOME TIME AND NEEDED TO RESIGN HER SEAT A FEW MONTHS AGO. I CAN READ THIS FOR THE RECORD BUT I CAN ALSO — >> IT'S OKAY IF YOU WANT TO DO A MOTION BUT YO DON'T HAVE TO READ THEM INTO THE RECORD, WE HAVE COPIES WE CAN SPREAD UPON THE MINUTES.
>> I MOVE WE ADOPT RESOLUTION HONORING SERVICE OF CYNTHIA SATTERFIELD AND THAT THE TEXT OF THE RESOLUTION BE SPREAD UPON THE MINUTES OF THIS COMMISSION MEETING AND THAT IT'S AN APPROPRIATE TIME RESOLUTION IF IT'S ADOPTED TO BE SHARED WITH MS. SATTERFIELD. >> SECOND. >> MOVED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER, SECONDED BY VICE CHAIR HYMAN. I UH KNOW MS. SATTERFIELD HAS SAID SHE LOOKS FORWARD, WOULD LOVE TO SERVE AT A FUTURE TIME WHEN IT WORKS BETTER FOR HER AND WE'LL MAKE SURE SE GETS THIS. WITH THAT MOTION AND SECOND ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THE AYES HAVE IT. THEN A RESOLUTION OF MR. PAUL HORNBUCKLE. WE'LL SHARE THIS WITH HIS FAMILY AFTER WE ADOPT THIS. >> IF APPROPRIATE, I PROVE WE ADOPT RESOLUTION HONORING THE SERVICE OF MR. PAUL HORNBUCKLE AND THAT WE SPREAD THE TEXT OF THAT RESOLUTION APROSZ CROSS THE MINUTES OF THIS MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THAT A UPON THE ADOPT OF THE RESOLUTION THAT THE RESOLUTION, ITSELF, BE SHARED WITH MEMBERS OF HIS FAMILY.
>> SECOND. >> MOVED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER AL-TURK. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY ANY OPPOSED? UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ONE FINAL ITEM. FUTURE TRAINING. >> THIS WILL BE SUPER QUICK. CHAIR BUZBY WILL REMEMBER AND MAYBE EVEN VICE CHAIR HYMAN, MONTHS AGO WE SPOKE ABOUT HAVING SOME TRAININGS WHERE THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY GROUP TRAININGS IN THE SETTINGS WE HAVE BEEN HAVING HISTORICALLY WHERE WE HAVE LUNCH. WE'LL STILL HAVE THAT WHEN WE'RE AT FUL CAPACITY WITH 14 MEMBERS BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO — WE WERE THINKING JUNE BUT I THINK JULY NOW BECAUSE OF EHC BEING CONTINUED TO JUNE. WE WERE LOOKING — CHAIR BUZBY ASKED ME DIRECTLY SEVEN MONTHS AGO, GRACE IF YOU SEE AN AGENDA THAT LOOKS LIKE LET'S START HAVING PEOPLE COME FROM CITY DEPARTMENTS TO TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT DURING THE COURSE OF THE YEAR.
IRONICALLY ENOUGH I THINK WE HAD A COMMISSIONER RECENTLY THAT HAD A QUESTION THAT FALLS IN LINE WITH WHAT WE'D TALKED ABOUT DOING AND WE HAVE NOT HAD AN AGENDA WHERE IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE. JUNE LOOKED GOOD BUT I THINK JULY WOULD BE THE BEST TIME TO HAVE OUR FIRST — WE HAVE THESE AT HPC AND WE CALL THEM TEN-MINUTE TOPICS. THIS WILL BE MORE OF A 30-MINUTE THING AND YOU CAN HAVE QUESTIONS AND WE'LL DO IT UNDER NEW BUSINESS SO IT WON'T BE IN THE WAY OF PUBLIC HEARING. IF THEY WANT TO STAY AND LISTEN THEY UH CAN. I THINK IT WOULD BE AN EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC IF THEY WANTED TO STAY AND LISTEN PRESIDENT THAT BEING SAID WE'LL SART WITH TOPIC ABOUT THE APPROVAL YOU HAVE TO SEEK AFTER ZONING ENTITLEMENTS WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO MOVE DIRT AND START CONSTRUCTION. WE'LL START WITH THAT AND THEN BUILD ON THAT AND YOU CAN GIVE US TOPICS AND IF WE'RE ABLE TO COME AN SPEAK ON THOSE, WE'LL TRY TO DO A COUPLE A YEAR.
MAYBE WE'LL START WITH THAT AND IF WE HAVE TIME TO DO WITH THAT, WE WILL. YOUR AGENDAS ARE SO HEAVY WE'RE NOT GOING TRY TO OVERLOAD YOU. PLUG AND LET YOU KNOW THAT'LL BE SOMETHING COMING DOWN THE PATH. THE OTHER THING WE'RE GOING TO DO AND PROBABLY START IN JULY AS WELL, SARAH, IS WE'RE GOING TO RIGHT NOW TRYING TO SET UP A PROGRAM SIMILAR FLOOR WHAT RALEIGH AND A LO OF OTHER CITIES IN NORTH CAROLINA AND OTHER STATES ARE ACTUALLY DOING CALLED "ASK THE PLANNER" BEFORE THE MEETING WE'LL HAVE STAFF MEMBERS HERE, THE CASE PLANNERS WILL BE HERE TO TALK ABOUT CASES ON THE JAY GENERAL DA AND ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR THOSE CASES FROM THE PUBLIC IF THEY COME EARLY UH.
WE'LL PROBABLY SET UP AN HOUR BEFORE AND BE ABLE FOR THAT. >> THAT'S FANTASTIC. >> WHAT ABOUT THE BEACH TRIP? >> WELL… [LAUGHTER] I'M STILL WORKING ON THAT. I'LL HAVE TO GET BACK WITH YOU ON THAT, MR. MILLER. >> QUESTION. WHEN DO YOU GUYS SLEEP? >> WE DON'T SLEEP MUCH. YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO DO WHEN I E GET HOME. >> DOES IT INVOLVE AN ADULT BEVERAGE? >> TWO HORSES, TWO DOGS, FOUR CATS. >> YOU THOUGHT THIS WAS HEARDING ANIMALS. I DO WANT TO TANK STAFF TONIGHT AND ALSO BUT I THINK TONIGHT IN PARTICULAR. YOU REALLY WERE WORKING WITH US, AND WE WERE SORT OF IN NEW TERRIRORY. WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT. I'LL TELL SCOTT AND MIKE THE SAME THING, BUT REALLY HELPFUL. AND SO THANK YOU. I UH THNK VICE CHAIR HYMAN AND I WILL WORK DILL YENTLY AND QUICKLY AND KEEP YOU POSTED ON THE COMMITTEE THAT WE GOT SET UP SO YOU CAN ALL BE IN THE LOOP ON WHAT WE'RE DOING AND WHEN WE'RE DOING IT.
>> ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO HELP FACILITATE GETTING YOU ROOM TO FIT IN AND MAKING SURE IT'S ADVERTISED WE'LL BE GLAD TO DO THAT. >> GREAT. THANK YOU. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, WONDERING IF ONCE YOU DO APPOINT THE COMMITTEE IF THERE ARE OTHER MEMBERS THAT WOULD SUBMIT IT WOULD BE GOOD TO KNOW WE HAVE FEEDBACK AND WE'RE NOT ON THAT FEEDBACK THEN WE SEND OUR COMMENTS SO THAT YOU GUYS CAN WORK THROUGH IT.
>> GREAT IDEA. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CREATE GOOD FEEDBACK LOOPS THAT FALL BEEN WITHIN THE LAW TO MAKE SURE WE CAN GET THAT INFORMATION AND WE CAN GET SOMETHING BACK OUT TO EVERYBODY IN ADVANCE OF NEXT MONTH'S MEETING. >> THANK YOU. >> [INDISCERNIBLE]. >> THANK Y'ALL VERY MUCH. >> ONE LAST AND I'LL BE VERY QUICK. >> PLEASE. >> ON JUNE 8TH, THAT'S A SATURDAY, DON'T KOW WHAT TIME IS YET, BUT AND IT'LL BE ADVERTISED MORE LATER, WE'RE GOING, DECIDOD IS WORKING WITH BIKE AND WALK COMITTEE — YEAH, THAT'S IT. BUT THE WALK AND TALK WILL BE WILL COVER HAY TIE HISTORIC HAY TIE IN EDGEMONT, I'LL BE LEADING THE EDGEMONT, AND IT'S LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF BOTH OF THESE AND ESPECIALLY IN THE FORE RUNNER OF WHAT WE'RE – TRYING TO DO TODAY — NOT AFFORDABLE HOUSING — THAT'S JUST IN MY HEAD, COMPACT DISTRICTS CLUSTER DISTRICTS, WHATEVER.
BUT I THINK YOU WOULD REALLY ENJOY IT. ANYWAY, I WAS HOPING THERE'D BE MORE PEOPLE, BUT, YOU FOLKS ON TV JUST COME ON. >> THEY'LL WATCH RIGHT TO THE .