The Refuse Of The Federal Spending Binge II

[Informal Records] [Chairman Issa] Greetings. The board
meeting will certainly involve order. As is the brand-new practice of this board,
we will certainly start by reading the Oversight mission declaration. We exist to secure two essential
principles. Americans have a right to understand their cash Washington spends as well as
takes is well invested. And also second, Americans should have a reliable, reliable government
that functions for them. Our responsibility on the Oversight and Federal Government Reform Committee is to safeguard
these legal rights. Our austere duty is to hold government answerable to taxpayers,
due to the fact that taxpayers have a right to understand what they obtain from their federal government. We will certainly work tirelessly in partnership with
resident watchdogs to provide the realities to the American individuals and bring authentic reform
to the Federal bureaucracy.This is the mission

of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Today’s hearing is the 2nd time this
Committee has fulfilled in two weeks to think about the effects inefficient investing have on the
Federal Government, the economic climate and also the taxpayers. This week’s GAO record exposes serious government
failures in reliable, effective use of taxpayer dollars. By conservative price quotes,
the replication and also fragmentation highlighted in the GAO report represents over $100 billion
in yearly losses. Yet, there was terrific consternation and 90
hrs of difficult debate in order to propose just $62 billion in cuts.The GAO report

, unlike
the cuts, is not regarding getting rid of services. It is about standardizing, incorporating, as well as
eliminating duplicative solutions that set you back the American individuals cash without serving
an extra use. Meaning, if we cut the administration, if we cut many of these programs
that repeat and also repeat, each of them having high paid and high ranking people, and
IT teams, and also different posting and, if you will, ad campaign, we can get rid of
prices without the American people suffering one loss of the necessary services thought
to be done by these programs. I am sure in future times, we will certainly have additional
hearings on programs that should simply go away, whether it is one or a hundred within
government. Today, we are going to fulfill with 3 very gifted as well as really informed
people, who are going to assist us recognize what should be a win-win for the American
We are talking concerning cuts in bureaucracy. Cuts in bureaucracy save cash, while providing a far better product to the taxpayers.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I value
the hearing today, and I look onward to listening to from our witnesses. Something strikes me as strange. That is,
we have actually heard the Head of state state over and also over again that he is “mosting likely to perform an extensive
line by line review of the Federal budget plan and also seek to remove federal government programs
that are not executing.” That is something we can all agree with. We have actually seen no
activity on the President’s words. We have a hearing today where we welcome
the Supervisor of OMB, which is a Presidential appointee, and also he declines to show up. So is
the Head of state significant concerning doing a line by line evaluation? Is the Director of the OMB attempting
to hide or duck the inquiries? It is horrendous that we find ourselves at
a hearing where we have an opportunity to do something good for the American individuals,
as well as that is, reduced costs and reduce this budget as well as do away with waste.Mr.

Chairman, you talked
about the replication, and also $100 billion, and also the Director of OMB won’t reveal up to give
us a possibility to ask inquiries and find out what we can do to reduce this $100 billion,
to find one more $100 billion to reduce, to try to bring this budget plan in line? I believe it is outrageous that the Director
doesn’t reveal up. I believe it reveals a neglect to the Legal Branch as well as the splitting up
of powers. It states to me that the Management and also the Director of OMB is a lot more interested
in speaking a good game out in the public, but doesn’t really desire to obtain to the tough
Mr.Chairman, I look ahead to this panel. I look forward to your management, but I am incredibly let down that the Supervisor really did not. I am not sure that this Management is major about cutting spending, if they.
I thank the gent. I currently identify the recognized Position. Member for his opening statement.
Thank you extremely much, Mr. Chairman,. I just want to go right away to what Congressman.
Mack simply said. I don’t assume the Head of state is concealing, or the OMB is concealing anything. The truth is that the Head of state, in his State of the Union, made it clear that he is about.
the service of attending to these concerns. As well as OMB is currently in the process of conducting.
its very own analysis of reliable ways of streamlining the federal government, improve services and also cut unneeded.
costs.This job is crucial to making sure Federal.
programs are functioning as successfully and also successfully as feasible. That is why I signed the letter.
with the Chairman asking for continuous updates, as OMB takes on this significant task. It is.
my understanding that letter will certainly be going out as quickly as we get the trademarks of 2.
Senators, Collins and also Lieberman, I assume it is. I desire to make it clear, as well as I do think.
that once again, one of the important things regarding this Chairman, I know he likes to do points successfully and also.
effectively. I would certainly believe that OMB, there will certainly come a time when OMB will certainly appear prior to.
us as well as will certainly be in the very best setting to give some testament that will certainly be useful. Currently, Mr. Chairman, it is absolutely great to.
see all of our witnesses below today. To Chairman Davis, it is a pleasure to see you once more. Your name has actually been stimulated fairly favorably around below. It is great to see you and.
Darrell. His image is radiating down.
on us, also.

[Mr. Cummings] Oh, my benefits. [Laughter.] [Mr. Cummings] As Well As Ms. Alexander, it is great.
to see you once again. Today we will certainly hear the results of a record.
released by the Federal government Responsibility Office on significant possibilities and also duplicative programs.
to improve Federal revenues. Initially, GAO’s report shows that there are actual opportunities.
to improve Government programs, conserve taxpayer bucks as well as supply services better.
and also efficiently. GAO determined at the very least 31 entities within the Defense Division.
that are meant to resolve the urgent needs of war boxers. GAO reported that there are.
challenges with the Department’s fragmented guidance. And GAO elevated problems regarding the.
GAO’s record. GAO highlights that the United States is essentially offering away. That is our cash.
A lot has actually been stated regarding what the taxpayers. said during the last election. Well, one of the important things they
stated is they do not want. to be cheated of their own cash. Congress passed legislation
in 1995 to offer oil firms. supposed nobility relief. The goal of the regulation was to urge production by. excusing oil companies from paying aristocracies to the Federal Government.The regulations. was supposed to need business to begin paying nobilities when they recouped their.
financial investment and also began earning a profit. However the regulation was improperly prepared, and.
when oil companies challenged it in court, they successfully avoided paying any type of nobilities. at all. In its report, GAO wrapped up that this trouble could cause$ 21 billion to.
$ 53 billion in lost income to the Federal Government. This windfall is mosting likely to an industry that. is making incredible revenues, regardless of the most awful economic recession since the Great Depression.
Mr. Chairman, we need to do considerable deal with this, and also you have. You have actually been a leader. in this field. Actually, in 2009 you provided a record warning concerning what would.
If these business won their lawsuit, take place. You said, any type of firm that got in a similar.
lease between 1996 and 2000 might escape paying aristocracies. That was what you said.You additionally stated this: “The Fifth Circuit choice. might force the Federal Government to compensate firms who have already tendered nobility. payments. Depending upon the market price of oil and gas, the total prices of. foregone nobilities can total virtually $80 billion.
” Mr. Chairman, you advised about this trouble,. and also I applaud you, I really do, for that. Currently we need to fix it. We have actually got to. repair it, and also it is mosting likely to take a bipartisan effort. We just had an enact your home where. we had a possibility to fix it, and also we were unable to.And so I assume, as Mr. Davis has claimed several. times, this is one where we can integrate, as Democrats and Republicans.

It is a win-win. situation, yet it is a win-win. It is not a win just for Republican politicians, not a win just.
for Democrats, yet most notably, it is a win for the American individuals.
I simply don’t. desire to be sitting right here 10 years from currently claiming the very same things, having shed a lot more.
cash. So I look ahead to the hearing, Mr. Chairman. As well as I thank you. Keeping that, I generate back.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Cummings complies with:] [Chairman Issa] I thank the Position Participant. All members will certainly have 7 legislative days in which to submit their opening statements. for the document. I currently most likely to our notable panel.The Honorable. Thomas M. Davis, III, former chairman of this committee, as the Ranking Member said.

He.
turns nose up at us on a daily basis. Currently the Director of Federal Government Affairs at Deloitte. as well as
Touche, and also the man that provided the subpoenas to the oil business on my part in order.
to start the process of doing the oversight on those flawed agreements that have actually cost the.
American individuals tens of billions of bucks. I want to thanks for that today publicly.
The Respectable Genetics Dodaro, the Business manager. of the United States, appearing I assume for the second time as the validated Comptroller.
versus the numerous times that you showed up before us enthusiastically as the Acting.Your work as.
a Legal Branch staff member, covering both the Executive and Legal Branch, providing. more than 3,000 people who provide us the non-partisan reports and fact-finding that we absolutely. depend on. As Well As Ms. Ryan Alexander, Head Of State of the Taxpayers. for Sound judgment, a typically factor, as well as invite back. Pursuant to the committee’s guidelines, all witnesses.
are asked to be sworn in before they testify prior to this board. If you would certainly please. increase your right hands.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testament. Witnesses react in the affirmative. Allow the document show that.
In order to permit time for discussion, as well as. There will be an environment-friendly light for as lengthy as you might speak freely.
There will certainly be a yellow. light to caution you that your time is elapsing. As well as I will be recognizing for you to finish. your sentence or paragraph
, however not a lot more once it transforms red.And that will allow a healthy and balanced. discussion later on. The chair acknowledges Mr. Davis
for his opening. declaration. [Mr. Davis]

Thank you, Chairman Issa and Ranking. Participant Cummings and coworkers. Thanks for the possibility to indicate prior to you today. I am doing so in my ability as a previous participant of the Home
, and specifically chairman of. this committee. I desire to say thanks to Gene Dodaro and also his team. for assembling an impressive record that developed the basis these days’s hearing.
Let me just claim, I wish we can involve OMB prior to this is done.
Because we remain in this. with each other, Republicans, Democrats, Home, Senate, Exec Branch. All of us triggered the issue,. as well as I assume most of us require to be there to solve it, as we eagerly anticipate this. At this point,. they are not right here today, but I assume in the future we need to ensure they are engaged. They are doing some points over there we need to read about.
During my period, I examined just how the Federal government.
I still believe that is the case. Duplicative and overlapping programs regularly exist due to the fact that of the means. One of the earliest as well as most enduring lessons.
So while two. different Participants believe there may be a requirement for a given Federal service, they will certainly. create the licensing legislation with their individual committees in
mind.For instance, if a member of the Education. Labor force Board intends to pass a task training program, they will certainly create the regulations. to guarantee it falls under a firm in that board’s province. The exact same would hold true.
of a participant of the Veterans Management. A participant of the Financial Services might link.
task training to reduced revenue individuals in order to direct such a program to HUD.
Therefore, we discover 3 different programs with. Typical sense suggests they need to be integrated to take advantage of economies of range, or. There are areas where unneeded.
very own reporting system for an offered Federal program, when basically the same information is required. from everyone. Government-wide, in the Exec Branch, the same society exists. Way too many. firms have set up stovepipes for the delivery of IT solutions, personnel guidelines, and interior. procedures.
The outcome is that smooth congruencies in interactions and also info sharing. are rare amongst government divisions. Information obtains shed, evaluation comes to be disjointed and. operability becomes impeded. OMB can function as an effective stimulant for. establishing teamwork as well as communication between companies, which could consequently lead. to a rapid increase in efficiency. It has the required as well as the authority to do. . Unfortunately, under Administrations of both events, the Workplace of Monitoring and.
Budget simply ends up being the Office of Budget. The concentration drops on the financial elements. of firms’ costs, when as a matter of fact a monitoring testimonial could produce a lot more
long-lasting cost savings. The secret to success is concentrating just how solutions. are supplied, just how solutions are procured and also exactly how information is collected and also assessed. In these locations, the Exec Branch appears to be deficient.Reorganizations, mergers. and also adaptation of repetitive programs are not Government ability.
An initial action to preventing a program replication or inadequacy,. Could be a CBO-like testimonial of newly recommended programs prior to Flooring factor to consider. In closing, allow me just state, there are excellent,.
committed individuals operating in government. Upon exam of how they are utilized,.
it is clear that a few of them are doing jobs they do not need to be doing, executing. under guidelines that didn’t require to be composed, filling in forms that must not. have been printed. I hope today’s hearing notes
the start of an effort, and a continual. effort, to attend to these issues.Again, I value the opportunity to share. my thoughts. I eagerly anticipate your questions as well as
ask that my whole declaration be placed into. the document. [Prepared declaration of Mr. Davis adheres to:] [Chairman Issa] Without argument, so purchased.
Mr. Dodaro? Excellent morning, Mr. Chairman and.
Ranking Participant Cummings, as well as members of the committee. I am really pleased to be below today to talk. about the GAO record which outlines opportunities to take on overlap as well as replication, minimize. costs and also improve income collection.Our record review 34 different locations of overlap.
as well as duplication and fragmentation. As well as it details a number of particular tasks that. need to be examined. I would certainly highlight a couple of classifications right here. today. One, there are several programs in certain locations that have actually created over. the years and also that require to be taken on.
There are over 40 programs in work. There are 80 programs planned to boost economic development. We additionally detailed in the Protection
area location.
costs, we think. Along with the overlap, fragmentation. and also replication, we also describe a variety of other opportunities for cost financial savings and also. enhanced profits, 47 locations are laid out in the report. A number of the price saving opportunities. most likely to the nuts as well as screws of the Government and just how it runs, as Chairman Davis outlined. There is a demand to make certain there is more competition in having, that there are. less contracting vehicles to help lower the costs.We are paying to maintain unnecessary. Federal residential property. We are paying with incorrect settlements for solutions that either are not. provided or are not well documented, that we have confidence that they are being saved. or appropriately paid. And also in the earnings area, there is a yawning. space at the tax level in between tax obligations owed and gathered. The last quote is$ 290 billion.
And there are areas that we believe through sensible use of boosting the digital filing,. making use of third-party data to recognize potential non-filers, and various other tasks that require.
Tax expenditures, for example, and just how they may replicate various other things. In this report, we state the tax debt in the ethanol location duplicates.

We will certainly be looking at these locations in the. We already have work underway for
our next year’s reportRecord and we look forward.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening statement. I will be delighted to address questions at the suitable time. Chairman Issa]
Thanks. The gentleman returns. back 14 seconds. [Laughter.
Ms. Alexander, please.
Great early morning, Chairman Issa,. Ranking Member, Cummings and participants of the committee. All of our job mirrors our core belief that no one, no issue where they fall in.
We have actually affirmed prior to this committee several.

Duplicative as well as overlapping programs regularly exist since of the way. Job Pressure Board wants to enact a task training program, they will certainly compose the regulation. A very first step to preventing a program replication or inefficiency,. Could be a CBO-like evaluation of recently proposed programs prior to Flooring consideration. One, there are numerous programs in specific areas that have developed over.Davis was on the dais, we
testified on crop insurance coverage waste, motivating the Agriculture Board to act. And also dealing with you, Chairman Issa, we have testified on Army Corps of Engineers issues,
as well as functioned with the board regarding shed royalty profits from overseas oil as well as gas
leases, both of which remain in the GAO report we are reviewing today. Along with my written statement, I would certainly
like to get in for the record our two recent reports describing suggested budget plan cuts. In our greater than 15-year history, TCS has
worked with most of the programs as well as issues highlighted in the GAO report. We really hope the
increased scrutiny generated by this report, the present political will to tame the shortage
and the good work of this committee will bring about overdue and also meaningful reform or removal
of a lot of these programs. Undoubtedly there is a lot too much to take on
in this abundant report in 5 minutes or also 50, so I will just highlight a couple of issues.Across the Government, GAO located instances of duplication.
Reforms to the purchase process, government-wide, might produce substantial cost savings.
This is specifically real in the Pentagon, where the dangers of duplication throughout solutions are high. Initiatives to get weapons like tactical wheeled cars must be worked with throughout services. Urging competition as well as inter-agency having can aid drive down expenses by as high as $500 billion by GAO’s quote. And Also as Mr. Dodaro pointed out, working with between DOD and Veterans Affairs digital wellness documents systems and interacting to regulate costs in the area of medication purchasing. Real estate monitoring by GSA additionally has massive possible financial savings, both from throwing away billions of bucks worth of unnecessary Federal home, far better fleet car monitoring, and better cost analysis of investing in as well as leasing decisions. Along with opportunities to decrease costs, the GAO report highlighted vital methods to enhance earnings, an additional crucial component of minimizing our deficit.Giveaways to the oil

and gas sector with aristocracy management and collection systems have been highlighted by the GAO many times and added to the high risk checklist this year. Chairman Issa, you recognize all too well from your deal with these troubles resulting from the royalty alleviation supplied in the mid-1990s to oil and also gas firms operating in the Gulf of Mexico the troubles originating from the Deep Water Nobility Relief Act, including a portfolio of leaseholders that pay no aristocracies in any way for oil and also gas exacted from Federal waters will certainly cost taxpayers as much as$ 53 billion in the next 25 years.The GAO record notes that practically$ 1 trillion in Federal earnings was inescapable in 2009 due to tax obligation expenses, what the Simpson-Bowles Payment called tax obligation trademarks. The 173 tax expenditures resemble costs programs and can be the exact same size or larger than relevant Federal spending in some goal areas, other than without the oversight.
Tax expenditure efficiency is a location that would certainly take advantage of improved congressional analysis as Congress thinks about means to address the Country’s lasting financial inequality. In 2015, as an example, GAO recommended that Congress change the research tax credit rating to
decrease windfalls to taxpayers for research spending they would have done anyway. This record suggests modifications to the brand-new markets tax obligation debt in addition to examining the tax-exempt status of Federal government bonds. Reviewing these tax obligation expenses for efficiency as well as worth and also eliminating the biggest business tax obligation technicalities would pave the means for simplifying the corporate tax obligation framework, decreasing overall prices and establishing a crucial degree of certainty for the organization community.Other. tax obligation expenditures, such as the home mortgage passion reduction or deduction for State sales tax. should likewise be thought about. Reforming Federal activities pertaining to corn. ethanol would be a dual whammy, boosting as well as eliminating repetitive programs earnings in

.
one dropped swoop. Making use of ethanol is mandated, it is shielded from foreign competition and.
it is subsidized. Any kind of one of these market-distorting and also repetitive policy options might. be recommended to aid an emerging market. It is indefensible that the mature corn ethanol. sector remains to benefit from the decades-old refundable tax obligation debt to mix ethanol
, at. a cost to taxpayers of more than $5 billion per year.Clearly, the GAO has actually offered Congress a lot to.
Eliminating duplication and waste in government and sensibly improving profits. I say thanks to the gentlelady.
Mr. Davis, the job you did while you were. When we start looking at duplicative. Pools of savings being combined, and hence create a chance in which there is a. carrot for firms that come together, such as the electronic medical documents, if.
They look within their spending plan because when you attempt to deprive a budget.
They don’t look. If you can incentivize groups to function with each other in those kinds of shared financial savings. Look, organizations are, you have to look.
They are hesitant to surrender the control or to partner, because.
When it comes, they don’t know what authority they may shed over the lengthy haul.So. to shared cost savings
, we are not getting the sustainability we need. I would do something like mandating companies.
to consider two or three line of businesses within every one where they might share some.
of these as opposed to putting them into stovepipes. Simply depriving them does not incentivize.
Them to function with other companies. That is simply not the nature

of the beast.
[Chairman Issa] I appreciate that. Mr. Dodaro? [Mr. Dodaro]
I concur with Mr. Davis. I assume. the motivation– [Chairman Issa]
He is not chairman any kind of more,. you know, you don’t actually have to concur with him. [Laughter. Laughter. I think there are disincentives.
And also I assume there can be more versatilities that way.Also, the suggestions that you assume there I assume.
Now, a great deal of these programs are provided with State. as well as local administrative structures.

A whole lot of times they have to set up separate frameworks. in order to provide numerous Federal programs. So I assume there is a lot of possibilities.
Quick follow-up on that.
Given that. so much of what is delivered in programs like that remains in fact Presidential trademarks, often.
called gives as well as affordable gives and so forth, ought to we call for that the Executive Branch.
do that consolidation? Acknowledge that if you are mosting likely to give five pots of cash to do.
Do you believe that is a wise item of legal,. Or lastly, must we offer the States authority.
them, which is something that Governor Barbour has spoken around, where he obtains various. pools of cash, and also each one is with different strings.How do you see those numerous alternatives.
to try to get the efficiencies? [Mr. Dodaro] I think all the options are really. At the Federal degree, I believe there are chances to consolidate these. I do think the States must have some versatility.
to show, and they can do it on a method to help in reducing several of their very own costs. As you know,.
And also give them some adaptability to. One of the things we have actually said is that there.
I think.
Chairman Issa] I appreciate that. Ms. Alexander, just a quick one. In your opening. statement, when you took on among the hardest columns to take on around right here, the ethanol.
Do you recommend that.
Or do you have an alternative idea? Our choice would certainly be to.
I assume in several. means, the answer on VEETC for us is this simply can expire. It is done at the end of
this. year. It can have been done in 2015. We don’t see a demand for changing it.
There are lots of efforts to take a look at brand-new and also. extra promising fuels.

But I do not believe that they need to be linked to VEETC. That is. simply a failed policy that is repetitive. [
Chairman Issa] Thanks quite. I recognize the Ranking Member for his concerns.
Thank you extremely a lot, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dodaro, one of the things that I found. I located that when, as chairman of the Coastline Guard Subcommittee,.
You stated they have actually made some motions. I believe essentially, for example,. Just how can we get them to do that?
[Mr. Dodaro] I think there is no alternative. for normal congressional oversight. [Mr. Cummings] As Well As Chairman Davis, you chatted. earlier to me privately around, it needs to be a continual effort. Just how do we receive, I know. with the Shore Guard, we simply kept bringing them back, over and over and also over again. And. we got points done. We conserved, I make certain, a couple of billion dollars in a really couple of years. Yet. I am trying to identify, just how do we maintain that sustained initiative, Chairman Davis? [Mr.Davis] Two points. Among the difficulties. in sustaining this in federal government is that you have individuals that are replaced over a duration. of time.
[Mr. Cummings] Right. [Mr. Davis]
They have a whole lot of other priorities. I liken it to mergers and purchases. In the economic sector, when you combine, it is. expenses, you have to take those out, you require to stay affordable. You have stringent time. lines, you have monitoring oversight from above

. Many times in government, you have.
costs that look great at the front end, theoretically, but by the time they are translated.
2 or 3 years, it often ends up costing you, since you have this wait it out atmosphere.One various other thing on the procurement, we still. don’t have enough procurement policemans. There is a scarceness of procurement policemans.
at the Government. They need to work with and educate more individuals in these locations. It saves money.
in the long-term to have good people behind there. [Mr. Cummings] Mr. Dodaro, I just have a few. Your report also says the United States is basically. I am simply trying to figure, this is our.
Mr. Dodaro] Primarily, we have suggested. that, there has not been a detailed search in 25 years of what the Federal Government.
is billing for these leases. And also when they are rated, the united state Government is ranked.

versus
various other countries and even some States, we rate extremely reduced as to what we are asking.
It is supposed to be finished this year. We have actually also claimed, Mr. Cummings, that there. As well as you put this on your high.
danger list, is that appropriate? [Mr. Dodaro] That is appropriate. [Mr. Cummings]
As well as why was that? [Mr. Dodaro] Well, we think that there had not been.
affordable assurance that the Federal Federal government was obtaining the incomes that they were due. as a result of
those leases, for two of the factors that I stated before. [Mr. Cummings] Simply put, we are being. cheated? [Mr. Dodaro] Well, I believe it is unclear. that we have practical guarantee we are obtaining whatever we should. [Mr. Cummings] You claim that in an extremely nice. means, however the reality is, it is cash that is due the American individuals, on our land, as well as. we are not obtaining it.Let me tell you something. If individuals were if that took place anywhere. being ripped off, individuals would certainly be going to prison in my area. Matter of fact, if somebody. steals a$ 300 bike,
they most likely to prison. Below we have billions wandering away, as well as.
at the very same time, we are attempting to locate money to make sure that kids can go to institution and. have instructors and also all that kind of thing.
This has to be a priority.I understand the. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the gent.
Mr. Mack. [Mr. Mack] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A quick note on the ethanol.
Count me know. locating those savings. On an individual concern, the ethanol has been screwing up my watercraft electric motor. Count me in. [Giggling.] [
Mr. Mack] A minute back, the Ranking Participant. said that the OMB wasn’t here patly because they are preparing and they are doing. . would not it have been a fantastic means to plan to actually come to the hearing and also get some. input and also share their thoughts? As Well As the Position Participant likewise claimed that a person of the manner ins which.
Well, I would like for the OMB to reveal up. Management had any kind of response to your record so much? Mr. Dodaro]
I have not chatted to them around. There are some locations in below in our high threat checklist that we have made a number.
I do believe the news also the other day. Response to this report. I do prepare to follow up with them and try to develop dialogue.
Mr. Davis, great to see you once again. This is a genuine trouble,. Federal government is throwing away cash by having duplicative programs.
No, Mr. Mack, unfortunately, it. I believe Mr. Dodaro would certainly concur with that.
been on that high danger checklist for generations. It takes a sustained effort on the part of.
Republicans and also Democrats up right here working with the Administration to get these done. The issue is simply maintaining your eye on the round with everything else that goes on.
And. when you reduced spending plans, when you go via CRs, these are the type of

things that fall. through the cracks. You still have the Pentagon.
Publications aren’t. auditable. So how do you understand where you are on these examples? Of course, it is a. soap opera. [Mr. Mack]
As Well As Mr. Dodaro, can you offer us. any referrals on what might be a few of the low-hanging fruit? Mr.Chairman, if. we could carry on any one of these, I assume it would suggest relocating in
the ideal direction. Is there any kind of kind of low-hanging fruit, points that are so
either ridiculous in nature. that by not acting, is sort of an embarassment?
[Mr. Dodaro] I believe, my suggestion would. be to initial construct off where
there is rather good agreement regarding the demand to simplify. Like as an example, in the areas I mentioned concerning several programs, there are some referrals.

to the Administration. In the employment and also training location, to decrease and also. consolidate a few of the programs.In surface transportation, there is arrangement. Instructor.
top quality, boosting those programs, combining in the education and learning field. There is some common.
My idea would be to develop off where. A number of these areas are likewise, as Mr. Davis.
There we have seen progression. I would say the actual factor, though, we took.
two locations off the listing this last update. And both those areas had greater than a dozen congressional
. hearings, as well as a great deal of dialogue with the Management to generate the outcomes that were there.
There are likewise chances in
the real genuine. We are spending,.
That doesn’t make feeling. There should be even more competitors in contracting. Regarding a 3rd.
There is also $640 million that is sitting.
in a Customs collection make up a number of years that there haven’t been choices.
That might be clearly a fast and simple win there. And also there is likewise a lot of cash going out.
We have chatted about the usage of technology there, however I think that. Is one more area where the most current estimate
, and and also all programs have have actually estimated. The newest quote is about$ 125 billion.So I believe there are lots of targets of.
get results. [Mr. Mack] Thanks significantly, as well as say thanks to. you, Mr. Chairman.
[Chairman Issa] I thank the gentleman.
We now recognize the gentleman from Ohio,. Mr. Kucinich, for five minutes. Ms. Alexander, I would certainly like to ask you, as.
Head of state of Taxpayer for Common Sense, for your take on the American individuals offering the. most profitable sector worldwide a$ 53 billion gift.

Thank you very a lot, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dodaro, one of the points that I found. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I assume Mr. Dodaro would certainly concur with that. And Mr. Dodaro, can you offer us.I would love to break this down
in layperson’s terms. As well as if I have any kind of misperceptions about this, maybe you could aid me with it. Due to a flaw in the 1995 Outer Continental Shelf Deep Water Aristocracy Alleviation Act, countless
oil firms are now drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, in Federal lands, and paying no
And as we have listened to, GAO– could
My microphone was not on. I am sorry. They are paying no nobilities right now as an outcome of an error
at Interior and also the framework of the Deep Water Royalty Relief Act and also succeeding court
Thank you. Now, as we have
listened to, GAO reports that U.S. taxpayers might shed as high as $53 billion as a result of
this. As well as it has actually currently started. In 2011 alone, the Bureau of Sea Energy
Enforcement, law and administration estimates that we will certainly shed $1.4 billion. On the other hand, the oil industry is making astonishing
earnings. The top 5 oil business reported earnings of $485 billion from 2005
to 2009. ExxonMobil, the biggest American oil company, reported a 53 percent boost
in its 4th quarter profits.Chevron, the second American oil business, reported 4th quarter incomes were 72 percent greater than the coming before years. The 3rd largest, ConocoPhillips, reported that its quarterly revenue climbed 46 percent. Currently, Ms. Alexander, is this an industry that demands billion buck giveaways? [Ms. Alexander] Taxpayers for Sound Judgment has actually worked with this problem for a long period of time, and also I assume our position is completely clear that we do not think the oil companies need these aids or actually any others.
So we think this is a problem that is ripe for Congress to resolve. Because in some methods it is, and so horrendous, the issues with the Deep Water Nobility Relief, that there need to
be bipartisan contract on it. These are taxpayer possessions that people are taking.
Editors.
I desire to price estimate to this committee what he claimed. What we require is to put a technique in place that will certainly assist. I would, and with oil at,.
Currently? Mr. Kucinich]
Just Recently, John Hofmeister,. that retired from Shell in 2008, and currently runs Citizens for Affordable Power, told a nationwide.
journal that large oil companies don’t need federal government help.Would you agree with Mr. Hofmeister? [ Congress can come with each other, develop. We assume this is a big possibility for there to be bipartisan action for reform. Many of these subsidies, the
Royalty Nobility is not 100 years old.
And also these handouts don’t. Do anything to help the American economy, is that? We believe that these handouts.
are enhancing really lucrative business. [Mr. Kucinich] Okay, thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
[Chairman Issa] Would certainly the gent return. his continuing to be time for simply a follow-up question? [Mr. Kucinich] Certain. [
Ms. Alexander, you are nuancing,.
deal with? The leases did not properly have the language to set off when gas costs,. when oil rates as well as gas rates got to a threshold to actually set off the royalties. That is the factor that a lot of this cash is not being paid. [Ms. Alexander] My understanding is that there. is a set of leases that were released between 1996 and 2000 that are flawed. There was an. error in the preparing. Then due to the fact that they didn’t have a price threshold in them, consequently. a court
ruled that all the price threshold language in any type of leases because duration that. had them was flawed.So all of those leases are excluded from royalties today. So it is a complex issue. [
Chairman Issa]

As well as I do think there is bipartisan. assistance, still, to try to repair that. I thank you. Mr. Lankford of Oklahoma. [Mr. Lankford]
Thank you. We had chatted previously today regarding rewards.
Obviously every person intends to have a lot more.
What motivations especially do you see that you assume, all right, this
is an. Because honestly, I have spoken with several people that are Federal. They state, I can not think.
we complete this form, I can’t believe we do this, somebody else does this.
They see. Just how do we create motivations within that agency to that details worker to say, when. Mr. Davis]
When I was head of the county federal government in Fairfax, I went to my agency heads at a budget plan. When we said look, of. Mr. Davis]
It is simply not in the nature of the means points work. One more thing is, we can bring companies. Simply if it is two or three lines of
business organization agencyFirm where right now they.
Now, I will give you one various other that affects.

the State, if I can just take a second.
Today, for State governments, they are spending. a great deal of money on simply having the ability to validate their interactions with the Federal Federal government. Safety and security criteria exist for States to validate individuals to accessibility information in federally-funded systems.
Each Federal company translates the criteria in different ways,. States have to meet each Federal firm requirement, replicating a various process.
Social Safety utilizes technology for verification,. Division of Justice will make use of a particular procedure and methods on that.So they are having. to do various things. They should have one standard throughout the board for these kinds. of points. [Mr. Lankford] That is fantastic. Mr. Dodaro,.
Mr. Davis spoke around
, within. Several things that we aim out in
our report are multiple agencies involvedIncluded OMB needs to play a really important function in this whole.
venture, as well as the Congress does also, to provide the ideal type of motivations there. One of the locations, it is

not pointed out. in below, what we are mosting likely to deal with, it gets on our high danger
listing, is updating handicap. programs. There have to do with 200 various handicap programs
. Because of our insistence in, as well as. working with OMB on the high risk set of conferences I discussed previously, we united. all the firms associated with that process. It was just one of the initial times they have ever. satisfied to be able to talk about that.
I think there are methods to construct in motivations. and also take care of disincentives. An additional area that we have actually suggested before. is renting versus buying.There is type of a bias in the regulations toward scoring that
in different ways. We have advised that be altered. [Mr. Lankford]
Allow me ask you a details concern. Mr. Dodaro. You had mentioned concerning the contracting automobiles, as well as you are advising. less having.
Have you assembled a checklist of contracting lorries you say, these should. be seriously took a look at? [Mr. Dodaro] Yes. These are agreements that. are inter-agency contracts. What we have actually said is there is really not a checklist, the listing ought. to be put together by the Exec Branch, it ought to be made visible, and people should. see to it they– [Mr.Lankford] Right now, we have a multitude. of different contracts as well as systems of agreements for procurement. You do not have, at this. factor, a list to state, here are the various contracting cars we believe are naturally.
We have the kinds of automobiles. I would be satisfied to.
Mr. Lankford] That would certainly be fantastic. I would certainly. like to be able to have that listing also. Exists a requirement as well, you were able to. reach right into all these different agencies as well as have the ability to investigate them in a manner that most. people can not. What would you perceive as the requirement for individuals to be able to reach. in and also have the ability to search the data, so the firms can go out their employment, their. strategies, their program philosophies, to be able to experience information and to be able. to in fact look it? Not just a.pdf on some site, but actually searchable data,. is there a demand for that and is
that feasible to manage? [Mr. Dodaro] There is certainly a requirement for. it.There is not nearly enough of it. And also it is feasible to manage. [Mr. Lankford]
That is among the areas I. check out and claim, you have the chance to be able to do that. There are whole lots. of people at residence that wish to be able to search that and research study that, whether. they be journalists, whether they be individuals. That is something I wish to see us continue.
to press on as a committee. I understand it has actually been chatted concerning before, to remain to locate ways. to be able to press as well as do that. As well as one last thought on it
, sunsetting programs. Is there a particular strategy that you have seen to say
, this is a great method to sunset these. things out? [Mr. Dodaro] I think there requires to be regular. reauthorization of programs. There are too many programs
that are developed that do not. have a normal testimonial and also procedure in place.I do believe the Federal Government requires to. invest extra in routine program analyses. One of the things we find and we discuss. in below is a whole lot of these programs have been operating for several years, and there is really not. a great deal of empirical proof
of what the returns are as well as whether they are being effective. So I think the Federal Government has, in the past, scammed the program examination

,. as well as I believe it requires to be a lot more established regularly. [Mr. Lankford]
Thank you. I produce. I say thanks to the gentleman.
We now identify the gent from Virginia,. Mr. Connolly, for five mins. [Mr. Connolly] Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Let. me welcome the panel, particularly, our previous Chairman and my predecessor in this seat in. Virginia, my buddy, Tom Davis. Welcome back, Tom. As a matter of fact, maybe, Congressman Davis, we could. start with you. You spoke about the truth that it would certainly be a smart investment to broaden. the number of purchase and also purchase employees within the Federal Federal government, so. that we are searching for effectiveness and also expense savings.Could you increase on that particular just a little. little bit? Because among things that definitely has actually struck a number of individuals is that Federal. contracting raised enormously in the 1990s, however purchase and purchase personnel. within the Federal Federal government did not keep up with that. [
Mr. Davis] In some locations it declined.

during that time.
It was a method to reduce budgets. In fact, many times you go to a purchase. conference now, and what you have is a great deal of service providers running the procurement. That. is not all negative, yet you
need a staff inside of Government who understands the device box. that they have, can figure out what obtains the best worth for the Government. As well as that needs. constant training, it needs every one of those sort of things.And what has actually taken place, often times, is we finish. up scrimping on procurement personnel, we lose excellent personnel to the economic sector. And also yet that is where you obtain your expense overruns, that is where you get contracts that are not. carrying out well,
because you don’t have the ideal oversight the whole time.

That. has been my experience.
And I think it is money, generally,. that is rather well spent, offered you proceed to educate individuals as soon as you hire them. I do not. understand if Gene agrees with that or otherwise, however that is my monitoring. [Mr. Dodaro] I believe that is definitely the. instance.
At DOD, the quantity of contracting of items and also services even more than increased over. As well as the acquisition work pressure grew much less than 1 percent.
are efforts currently to try to boost that job pressure with proper training and also correct oversight. It is an excellent financial investment
. [Mr. Connolly] I assume that is an actually great. factor. Often we get lugged away with points like refuse of Federal costs binge,. titles like that. However sometimes we need to make tactical financial investments, actually, if we. are going to safeguard taxpayer bucks. Is that not appropriate, Mr. Dodaro? [Mr. Dodaro] That holds true.
You need to look. You have to make certain you have the
proper.
[Mr. Connolly] Congressman Davis, just one. various other point. Feeling in one’s bones your interest in the innovation sector, now the Management. is checking out Federal information centers and trying
to consolidate. There has been a big expansion. of the Federal information centers.What is your sense of the prospect of possibly both attaining.
much more efficiency, defense of information as well as price financial savings for the taxpayers? [Mr. Davis] You have over 2,100 information. today in the Federal government for 24 different companies.
I think you might save several hundred. million bucks a year by combining. I think you ought to put this on a fast lane. You require to look at the security as you do. those type of things.But look, in so lots of locations, we are not sharing savings, we are.
stovepiping. And Also as Mr. Dodaro stated, there are many means we might function across agencies.
to store these examples. You obtain not only economic situations of scale in this, you obtain a. lot of other savings along the way if we would find out, in between agencies, to share

these things. It has just not been the society.
Thank you. Mr. Dodaro, going back to the topic of oil,. I assumed I heard.
was a defect in the implementation of the leases at Interior in the 1990s.
Whether or not there. is a flaw in the legislation is a little bit more of a viewpoint matter. However I believe it is a truth
that. there were mistakes in the drafting and also execution of the lease agreements at Inside in the. 1990s. We believe there are issues with the structure in the regulation even if it then,. consequently in a court decision, moved all rate limits because context, the legal. It is, the implementation of the leases was a problem. [Mr. Connolly]
Yes, however relative to this. change in the law, that is something, clearly, within the province of Congress. [Ms. Alexander] Well, Congress can resolve this. [Mr. Connolly] That is right. [Ms. Alexander]
This is something that Congress. Because my time.
in regards to the reality that we are 93rd out of 104 nations in royalties exacted from. the oil industry? [Mr. Dodaro]
I produce back, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kelly of Pennsylvania for five minutes. I believe the gent, Mr. Connolly, made.
by Interior, written incorrectly and afterwards inevitably not make it through at the court.
I. appreciate that, and also I produce back. [Mr.Kelly] Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Dodaro, good to see you once again. It is good. to have Western Pennsylvania people in the area.
One of my questions, from where I am, we do. My concern has constantly. Mr. Kelly]
And also once again, I state this from being. there. My question then comes, we have these folks there everyday. And after that we have actually a. plan called the Hazardous Analysis Essential Control Factor, and it is, let me simply check out. this. Thought about that its clinical and pure application is a state of the art food safety. system, every meat plant develops their very own system, based on USDA requirements,. and should operate efficiently under this system.We do not need an inspector at every plant. daily. We operate the exact same facilities, the same systems, whether assessors are existing. or not. And I would certainly just claim that, wherefore I have. carried out in my lifetime, running video is a lot a lot more vital than pictures from time.
to time. So we have these people in these plants every day, USDA assessors.
They are enjoying. what these people do.
We send out in an additional group that comes in to.
I am just trying to comprehend, as we experience. this, and also we see the replication of this as well as the price to taxpayers, and truly the expense. advantage analysis, where ultimately does it serve the taxpayer or individuals in those. organizations? Could you shed any kind of light on that particular at all? [Mr. Dodaro] Yes. We have actually directed out, for.
a variety of years, that the food security system is completely fragmented.
It is truly not. There is a demand to go to a risk-based strategy, and also I believe that. A lot of our food currently is coming from international sources, and we are still.
The risk-based strategy. Mr. Kelly]
As well as I question this. I come.

from personal market, I am not actually well-hinged with government. I simply maintain asking yourself why. we maintain shooting ourselves in the foot and also wonder why
we are limping. We have these boards,. we ask these concerns, we maintain going
over and over and also over once again. As well as everybody comes. up with the same answer.

Mr. Dodaro,.
Is that not appropriate, Mr. Dodaro? Mr. Dodaro, going back to the topic of oil,. I think the gentleman, Mr. Connolly, made. Mr. Dodaro, excellent to see you again.There are a lot of policies from as well several agencies, there
is excessive duplication, there is way too much overlap. When does it stop? When do we deal with
it? [Mr. Dodaro] I think you just need to number
out which concerns Congress wants to seek and stick with it.There is not a whole lot of substitute for just rolling up our sleeves and concentrating on these locations and also seeing to it we get results. It requires sustained follow-through. There are cultures and incentives that will certainly keep points in position up until they are broken.
And the only means they will certainly be broken is with sustained initiatives by the Congress as well as the Management in order to do it. Or else, it will not change materially. [ We try to drive to those exact same verdicts as well as get things taken care of. I generate back. I give thanks to the gentleman.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And also you agree that we are not obtaining a fair return presently, remedy? Sense assistance Mr. Markey’s regulation? Mr. Markey supplied that regulation on the House Flooring.
over. But up until our close friends on the Republican side of the aisle really intend to place acts.
behind their words, we are not going to get much activity on that. What would certainly you say to encourage my Republican.
associates over below who are obstructing the repair to this adjustment, what would certainly you say they.
As I say, our setting over.
time has actually simply been, just obtain this done, simply repair it. The Markey expense does fix it, to ensure that.
is one way to do it, is choose that.Come up with another solution if you have an additional. service that you think is better. [Mr. Tierney] Well, inform them why the Markey. Change functions.
Tell them why you sustain it. [Ms. Alexander] Due to the fact that we assume, we sustain it.
that it is a constitutional method, based on what we have actually reviewed, to placing the renters.
of the no-royalty leases in a setting where they have an incentive to renegotiate. As well as.
basically, we simply intend to not remain to hand out those sources. We are looking.
at lots of different alternatives. [Mr. Tierney] Thanks. So allow me say to my Republican colleagues,.
we recognize the problem, we share what you say. Is your intention you want to settle.
it? We have actually provided you with a flawlessly great way, a legit way and constitutional.
means to settle it. Allow’s function on it, and next time it turns up, perhaps you will certainly elect.
with us on it and also we will get the matter settled, $53 billion back to our individuals, so we are.
not running around reducing matter from instructors as well as minimizing Pell gives so trainees can’t.
afford college, whacking work training so people who are jobless can’t return to work. Let’s obtain serious.Let’s do something for genuine. [Mr. Cummings] Will the gentleman return? [Mr. Tierney] I will certainly yield. [Mr. Cummings] Ms. Alexander, among the important things.
that the report stated was that, in some instances, information was being provided by the oil.
companies incorrectly. And also there was self-reporting. As well as in some circumstances, there was no coverage.
Could you comment on that, please? The concern of self-reporting,.
this is basically an honor system, here is our oil, take it, tell us how much you have.
taken.We do not think

that is the appropriate means to do service. We do not believe that.
is Congress and also the Management treating taxpayers like they have a fiduciary duty.
to manage our properties aggressively. And also I simply intend to give credit where credit rating.
schedules, we do sustain the Markey repair, however we additionally have actually worked very closely with Chairman.
I believe there is an actual possibility for a bipartisan option on this.And from the. Thank you. I thank the gent.
Mr. Meehan, for his remarks, for 5 minutes. [Mr. Meehan] Thanks, Mr. Chairman, and also.
thanks for the discussions from the whole board. Mr. Dodaro, I didn’t know for sure.
I was listening to the language. And also I believed I got the Pittsburgh. Is Jim Dodaro.
Okay, however it’s the Pittsburgh.
in the voice. Thank you for your discussion today. I come.
to this board with a background that includes times as an USA attorney. Because.
capability, I can be found in after September 11th, when we were taking care of the issues of terrorism. We each share duties in other committees too, as well as one of those committees on which.
I serve is Homeland Protection. As a result, I assume as each people underwent.
your extremely comprehensive analysis of Government spending in numerous abilities, however likewise the.
duplication, I was really struck for two reasons.One, with regard

to type of the administrative. overlay of a lot of companies, however likewise what goes to stake with the problem of bioterrorism. So I take a minute to review from your report a minimum of five departments, 8 firms. and greater than two dozen Governmental appointees overseas, $6.4 billion relevant to bioterrorism. On the front end of this, we are saying. there is no wide, incorporated, national method that includes all of the stakeholders with. biodefense duties to determine the risks methodically, access the resources. that are required to do it, and afterwards to prioritize and assign the financial investment throughout the spectrum. So that gets on the front end, to protect against a case. Then you end, there is no national plan. to collaborate Federal, State and neighborhood initiatives adhering to a bioterror attack. And the United.
States lacks the functional as well as technological capabilities required for an appropriate feedback.
This might be Katrina throughout again. We are. truly on the front end of an exceptional challenge.And from my work with the Homeland Protection. Council
, bioterrorism is a very genuine danger.

Can you take a min and also comment on
this. very, really vital facet of this report? [Mr. Dodaro]
Yes, I would certainly, thank you. Complying With September 11th, there was a whole lot. of focus on shielding the transport system, particularly the airline company industries. Then what we were trying to concentrate on, and I assume the 9/11 Payment, was, what are. the various other possible dangers to the Country, what are other methods that can be sought. For example, contraband info or dangers over the boundary literally, various other modes of. transport. The biodefense area is one that we felt,.
for a variety of years, had not been obtaining enough attention, and also understanding what the threats. were, having an ideal strategy in place to be able to
do it, it resembles a variety of. areas that really needs several agencies to be included. And there truly had not. been a way to collaborate that.We tried to boost this to the Homeland Protection. Council and also the National Safety Council, which are well postured to be able to do this.
We have not obtained as much reaction as I would certainly have suched as from them in this location, to. I do think this is a location where legislative oversight.
extremely vital things that can be done to see to it we remain in a setting to detect and. protect against something, not only in a setting to be reacting after the fact. [Mr. Davis? Mr. Meehan, allow me just claim, if.
I believe it would be even much more startling. Mr. Meehan]
Well, I only have 50 seconds,. yet I am mosting likely to ask both of you, in response to this, would you inform me how we look
at. developing the sort of mechanism where there is a focal point as well as a national approach where. we can get a single factor of response that allows us to both be prepared on the front.
end, to collaborate these possessions, and as significantly, in the event that we have a case, to. be able to react effectively on the backside? We have actually requested interest to be paid.
I understand maybe you can tell me the background here.But what is the remedy? What works. best in terms of just how we organize as well as then seek liability? [Mr. Davis]
I will certainly take a fast stab. One. of the troubles at the Exec Branch degree is territory and lawn over that is going. to be
in charge. This is mosting likely to take engagement from the Congress, from both events, with.
the Administration in identifying a course as well as continuing. We have not had FISMA alterations.
considering that 2002, long overdue.But I think it is mosting likely to take a great deal of discussion and also a whole lot. of bipartisan teamwork to move this in advance. However it needs to be done

. [Mr. Dodaro] I agree with that completely
. This needs leading degree legislative as well as management support to be able to do it. You can not work. with the agencies on a peer degree and anticipate that they are going to produce this kind of.
mechanism. That is the basic problem. [Mr. Davis] As well as I would certainly just include
, I didn’t. expand up in your area, however I had two of my kids that mosted likely to Swarthmore College in. your district.
Well, they are certainly really.
[Laughter.] [
Ending on that high note,. We now acknowledge the gent from Vermont,. Mr. Welch, for 5 mins.
Mr. Welch] Thank you quite, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dodaro, that is a wonderful report. I actually. wish to thanks for it.I assumed what, to name a few points, was terrific concerning it. is it was balanced, it took a look at the entire issue, not simply the loss from replication,. yet additionally the loss from unsuitable tax obligation aids, inappropriate settlements,
the error price in our repayments. So it was exceptionally useful and fairly extensive. Mr. Chairman, I intend to thank you, as well. I. think the emphasis of this questions is really important. Mr. Ranking Member, I really value. it. I am asking a bit regarding the oil aids,. because it is an easy target for us, however amazing that it isn’t taken treatment of. Your report. If we got rid of that oil aid for royalty-free, indicated$ 53 billion would certainly be conserved by taxpayers. exploration each time of $100 a barrel oil. You completely sustain eliminating that aid.
for the oil firms, so we can save cash for the taxpayers? [Mr. Dodaro] We were asked to calculate what. it would certainly be if that had actually remained in location appropriately throughout that time period. [Mr. Welch]
I would certainly ask you what you. I believe that is the high end. Mr. Welch]
Allow me just take place, I will come. back to you soon. Ms. Alexander, you suggested that was, again,.
I applaud you because you are taking a thorough method, you are looking at all the aspects. That oil aid was something you talked. Ms. Alexander]
It is the oil firms’. job to earn money piercing oil and also selling it. It is Congress ‘task to have a fiduciary. function and take care of taxpayer dollars.
We are looking out for the taxpayers, and also we. assume there is area for a solution.
[Mr. Welch] If there, is it your sight that. are going to be taxpayer subsidies, which is an expense to every taxpayer in the Country,. The intent is to develop work, that that aid should go to arising technologies. and also sectors, not fully grown and profitable sectors? [Ms. Alexander] We take a doubtful check out. all subsidies, and also definitely, as a beginning factor, we desire to recognize what we are obtaining. for our tax obligation dollars.If we are placing a buck right into a market, we
desire to know why we are. doing it and also what our goals are. Are we trying to obtain jobs from it as well as we are not obtaining.

work? After that it is an inefficient aid. If it is an extremely rewarding industry that is mature. and also should have the ability to look after itself, after that it shouldn’t need aids. We are mosting likely to be unconvinced regarding subsidies. to new and emerging modern technologies, and also established really high performance requirements. There is. a time as well as a reason framework. [Mr. Welch] And also essentially, that skepticism.
It ought to be applied to a tax obligation expense, which sets you back the taxpayer. We see it that means, yes.
Mr. Welch] Mr. Davis, some individuals claim you. are a genuine clever politician. I am going to ask you really for some guidance. [Mr. Davis] I am a changed political leader. [Giggling.
In this area, we have the Democrats. And also a whole lot of times the various other. My sight, we are both.
Where there is. replication, we should remove it. Where there is a freebie tax aid, we should certainly. get rid of that. However we are kind of organized on opposite sides of the line right here, as well as I. recognize that the Chairman and also the Ranking Participant wish to conserve taxpayers’ money.
That is the. ultimate objective. I wonder what you would certainly think about us attempting.
to match off locations where we agree.In various other words, Mr. Lankford is doing great in. his subcommittee. You pointed out, for example, replication that makes no dod, va and feeling.

records. Why don’t we have one collection
of clinical documents. Suppose we combined that with, state,. doing away with the ethanol aid, where there does seem to be some bipartisan support,. and you are doing them with each other? Or one more pairing may be
these oil aids that. simply serve no objective as well as set you back the taxpayers$ 53 billion, and also we couple that with following. your recommendations, where we have different Federal companies needing the States to accommodate. each one of their different requirements for verification? It makes absolutely no
sense.So just how do we, my stress right here at times. is that it looks like it is a political impediment
that inhibits us from taking proper activity. that can materialize progress.

And also in your testimony, you suggested to us that we search in the mirror. Truthfully, I assume that is respectable recommendations. As well as my goal right here would be to
conserve taxpayers ‘. money. Where there is duplication, we can settle on, it ought to be removed, let’s. do it.Where there is a tax expenditure that is just a ripoff from the viewpoint of the. taxpayer, let’s eliminate it. From a moving ahead
, making progress on what the Chairman. and also Position Member wish to accomplish below, do you think that makes some feeling? [Mr. Davis] It not just makes good sense, it is. If we are going to move in advance, important. You have an Autonomous Management, you need. a Management buy-in. You have a Congress that is separated. As well as when it concerns squander,. you claim one man’s pork is one more guy’s steak, however on a great deal of these effectiveness issues,.
I think we should certainly be able to come together on this committee, take a seat, we are not going.
You have to go to the Management,. And also look, let’s face it, there are interest teams outside.
It is simple to talk in a vacuum where you have your bean counters right here, these are the numbers.
When you get outside, it ends up being a bit more difficult.So this committee, I believe, could play an extremely. I believe you might get everybody back once more, when you get some contract on. You obtain a record, you have a hearing,.
you get a little momentum, and you ignore it and you carry on to the next new point
. However this is something this committee was empowered to do when it was formed back in the 1950s.
I believe it is something that, we are not going to concur on everything.But there suffice. things we concur on, we can place together a rather juicy record, and I assume save the. taxpayers numerous billions of dollars. So I believe it is a good tip.

[
— we are very Pennsylvania-oriented committee, as you understand– Mr. Platts, for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The present Chairman, I constantly want
to sayClaim Mr. Chairman, great excellent have you back.
Laughter. Your understandings are absolutely extremely.
I want to applaud Senator Coburn for having actually funded the legislation and the. Truly what I see is the start of the process, the first of what will certainly be ideally. Tom, you touched on.
As when you were chairman and also now with Chairman. Issa, I have the opportunity of chairing the Subcommittee on Federal Government Organization, Performance.
On a certain concern, when you assume around. We recognize we can do a great deal. Two first concerns, Mr. Dodaro, to you, and also.
this probably will be possibly in a follow-up hearing with you or personnel on the subcommittee.
degree, as you looked at some of the replication such as the$ 4 billion on teacher high quality,. exists any type of capability to offer even a guesstimate of cost savings, administrative savings, if we. took those 82 different programs into also half that number?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, as well as.
Mr. Meehan, allow me just claim, if. Thank you extremely a lot, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I desire to thank you, as well. The present Chairman, I constantly want
to sayClaim Mr. Chairman, great excellent have you back.Any ability to offer a guesstimate
I will certainly go back and take an appearance
as well as function with the team.I do not assume we had the ability to do it, since there location great deal
of constraints on the quantity of details that is available on what it costs to carry out
some of these programs, especially those in this instance that are provided through
the State and local level. We do believe there is plenty of chance right here to consolidate
programs. And as I stated previously, in the Administration’s proposal for education and learning
reform, they are already recommending to combine 38 of these programs into 11.

So I think there
I don’t have an expense price quote. I wish I did. And also I believe that is a favorable
sign here, your referral to Assistant Duncan and also DOE, taking a look at attempting to be positive
in that consolidation initiative to be more reliable. A follow-on, and I believe it is a comparable solution,
that you don’t have the capacity to have the information at this point, and that is, I.
am mosting likely to remain with teacher high quality, instructor prep work, those 82 programs, I don’t.
assume you possibly have the information offered to you right currently to do an expense benefit evaluation.
to say, okay, we have these 82 programs, these 5 over right here we can show have actually.
done a great task. These other 77 are battling. Is that exact, that at this moment you do not.
have the information or details to be able to obtain to that detail, that cost advantage evaluation? [Mr.Dodaro] That is right, particularly for. the smaller programs.
We do discuss in the record that a variety of the smaller sized programs. are so tiny, it is difficult to examine them. [Mr. Platts] That under$ 50 million number,. what the management expenses, what the cost savings would be? [Mr. Dodaro] Right. That is proper. [Mr. Platts] In expecting the hearing.
procedure, I need to tell you, the temptation is to attempt to make the point regarding the duplication,.
to invite one rep from all 82 programs on just instructor education and learning to come. We would certainly.
load the room, there would not be any kind of seats left, to make the point that your record does,.
that we need to do a great deal far better right here. An added question I am going to try to.
squeeze in right here, improper settlements, huge problem, you reference $125 billion as most likely the.
reduced end.That is what we

recognize or assume we know about it, who knows just how much is really. around.
Any kind of particular suggestions? Because when we believe of how to stabilize the budget.
and deficit reduction, it is entitled reform. As well as two of the most significant locations of incorrect settlements.
are Medicaid as well as Medicare. Any type of particular locations you wish to put us towards relating to incorrect.
payments as well as those two programs? [Mr. Dodaro] The first point I would state,.
Now there is not, so the price quote is incomplete.There are possibilities to make use of even more details. We spoke about it at the high risk hearing with Chairman Issa. I think the Improper Payments Removal.
effort with you. Chairman Davis, did you have something to include? [Mr. Davis] I would simply include, improper settlements. I assume has been consistent a trouble for federal government. And also this regulations helps.
There are a lot of. excellent software application things around on scams detection, anomaly discovery and so forth that aren’t.
being used. I believe you need to proceed to press that from below. As well as I would just include, share and also savings
contracts. are something the Federal government needs to consider in several of these locations. That is primarily. that you do not pay anything unless you get a return, and also after that you can do a percent from. that, and it is bargained down. They are lawful under the much, however they are rarely used. Yet it is a terrific method to get something around rapidly. It doesn’t need to come out. of budgets right now. It is a net-net to the Government.I toss that out for discussion. [Chairman Issa] I thank the gent. [Mr. Platts]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [Chairman Issa] The gentlelady from the District. of Columbia, Ms. Norton, for five minutes. [Ms. Norton]
Thank you significantly for this. hearing, Mr. Chairman, it is a valuable and also extremely crucial hearing. I have an inquiry for Mr. Dodaro, as well as my great. friend, Mr. Davis, my regional next-door neighbor as well as great personal buddy. I am going to offer. you a pass on the topic du
jour. I am not mosting likely to ask regarding oil subsidies. As a matter of fact,. I am mosting likely to ask you concerning an aid that exists method underneath the surface. I am rating member of a committee that has. to do with property as well as building disposal, additionally with structure and also leasing. I keep in mind, Mr. Dodaro, that among your listings of locations recognized was, and I would like you to elaborate upon. it, due to the fact that it is stated so tersely, “enhance price evaluations used for making Federal center. possession and also leasing choices could conserve tens of countless dollars.” Allow me give you an example.We simply built. a gorgeous Department of Transportation structure simply a

few years back.
It is significant, it was state. We constructed the Division of Transportation, it will always
be there,. When that lease is out, we most likely will have purchased the structure.
What changes do you assume should be made and who should make it? We run up versus these. Just how should we transform scoring?
Is it administrative? Does it take an act of Congress? We have actually recommended that OMB.
However it is a mix of action by OMB, dealing with CBO as well as the spending plan boards. that actually would need to make a modification in the scoring rules.I think it is proper. There requires to be flexibility. It is not always one means

or the other, but there needs to be. an excellent expense advantage study, as well as the government as well as the taxpayers would benefit. [Ms. Norton] Yes, all I am requesting is that. the Federal Federal government not have one way of doing real estate transactions, while the. rest of the Country does it another means. The initial point you have to check out is, why
does. everyone else do it by doing this? Why do you get a residence with the home loan, and also if you are. the Federal Government, you need to put the cash right down? Why is that far better for. the taxpayers? Mr. Davis, I was interested, because of your,. this is so Davis-like,
win-win technique to things, this notion of looking for methods.

to interact on these things, I noted that in building disposal, I have just signed.
a letter with the chairman of the subcommittee, in which we are asking GSA for access to their.
data base upon excess property.Now, the President has a whole research on excess residential or commercial property going.
On, and currently you see our

committee interested. You see the Management, you see this. committee as well as you see the suitable subcommittee all going at the exact same concern, all seeing that. there are bucks there. What function, Mr. Davis, having actually been chairman of this board, do.
you think the board ought to play since there are a lot of stars thinking about this.
low-hanging fruit? [Mr. Davis] Well, and there is a first. actor.
Martha Johnson, the Manager at GSA, has placed a team with each other, her very own advisory. committee on this subject, also, of eliminating surplus properties.You have a lot of.
chefs in the kitchen right now. This board needs to drive an outcome.

I think you require.
to hold their feet to the fire. We need to place some time restrictions on this.
This has actually been. around a long time, before I pertained to Congress, trying to get rid of property or make use of dilapidated. residential or commercial properties in a manner that we can rehabilitate them, use them, often share it with the.
private sector.What we require to do here at the subcommittee. level is remain to hold hearings and also drive it and maintain their feet to the fire. You have. to put time frame on this, or the clock goes out. I assume Mr. Dodaro’s record shows a. whole lot of financial savings in this, if we can get it.
I would simply add another thing on the scoring. I dislike to mention this, however you obtain disappointed, Congress can always direct racking up, also, if. you do not obtain any kind of action out of the– [Ms. Norton] What do you suggest, straight scoring? [Mr. Davis]
You can direct racking up. We have actually done it, I do not say we do it all the time. Conserve a whole lot of cash.
[Mr. Platts] [Presiding] The gentlelady returns.
back, and also one more previous chairman of the committee, Mr. Burton, identified for five mins. [Mr. Burton] Tom, it is great seeing you once again. I understand you are available in the exclusive sector making great deals of cash. So it is great. to see you.See, he is blushing. [Mr. Davis] Not this morning. [Laughter.
]

[ Mr. Burton] Well, anyway, welcome back. It. is great seeing you. This picture simply doesn’t do you justice. Yet
anyways, I wish to make a brief remark. When he was right here, concerning Mr. Tierney’s remarks a couple of mins ago.
I wish he was still. here. We looked at the concern that he raised on that particular recommital motion.The reason that.
recommital movement failed was because they were, effectively, I do not such as to use the. term blackmailing, yet blackjacking the oil firms right into renegotiating leases that had. already been agreed to in
order to obtain a new lease. Which is something that I think. many people would agree is a violation of law. The leases, several of them are for 20,. 25, thirty years. And there was a case, and I
am stating all. this for the document, there was an instance, the Kerr McGee case
in 2007 that went to court,. where they attempted to compel a renegotiation of the agreement, as well as Kerr McGee won because. the contract was legitimate and the government had no right to go back and insist on a change. in that, simply due to the fact that they wished to obtain even more back from the company.Now, I assume there is a manner in which we can do. this in the future.
We have talked regarding this up right here.
I would such as to go right into this a little bit. We import regarding 63 percent of our power. Back in 1972, when we had the oil stoppage, it was about 25 or 26 percent.
I got some gasoline last night, which may. You could see$ 5,$ 6 a gallon gas. T. Boone Pickens was in to see me about a week or two earlier,.
might reduce our reliance on international oil by half within the next decade.That one.
point. And also yet we are not doing or drilling anything to check out for energy in this Country. We can’t obtain brand-new oil leases, we are obtaining all type of ecological problems increased that. method, we can not drill here, we can not drill there. We have trillions of gallons of coal. shale that might be converted to gas to oil, we have oil around this Nation, in the. ANWR as well as off the continental shelf and also in the Gulf of Mexico. We have trillions of cubic.
We are in effect creating a greater dependence. We have gone from.
25 percent to 60 some percent dependence on foreign power, because we had the oil embargo,. where people were strolling 4 blocks to get a canister of gas to obtain to function. If you would certainly just offer me another 30 seconds,. Mr. Chairman. I believe it is very vital, and I know this is off the subject and also I really. appreciate your being forgiving of my remarks here. I believe it is truly crucial,. when we are speaking about renegotiating or negotiating oil leases or gas leases or whatever. we are discussing that we realize
, we have a massive dependency on international energy.And this. Nation, from an economic standpoint, and also a defense viewpoint, could be in a terrible. If we do not relocate toward energy freedom, situation. I believe everyone, everyone on this dais. as well as all people, no matter of

whether we
are Democrat or Republican politician, should be speaking. about manner ins which we can relocate in this direction as swiftly as feasible. Because if we do not,. and also points go southern between East or in Venezuela or somewhere else, we might actually. see issues, lights off, fuel going via the roof covering, the price of all the services and also goods. that are trucked going through the roofing, an inflationary spiral that could eliminate this Country.With that, I thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.
[Mr. Platts] Thanks. [Mr. Davis] Mr. Burton, can I react to that. for just a second? I think you are one, however can I just make one comment? [

Mr. Platts] Certain. [Mr. Davis] You need to bear in mind, the stone. Since they ran out of stones, age didn’t end.
Our dependence on oil, it is not since we. lacked oil. There are going to be alternate gas established. That, I assume, continues. to be the long-lasting method. What is the most irritating is concerning Congress’. failure, and I belonged to this, ahead to holds with some type of defined energy. plan that has more domestic item, as you have noted, more
research study and rewards. right into different gas, which we have begun to do, and also after that much more conservation. It is a. three-pronged deal.The parties ought to be able to collaborate on this or precisely what. you say is going to happen. [
Mr. Chairman, allow me simply make. We require to obtain moving on
energy power freedom nowCurrently Mr. Platts]
The gentleman yields back. Having. had the opportunity to offer under both former chairmen, how could I not concur with both. of you. You make terrific points when we talk concerning power independence. It is economic. security, it is nationwide security. They are
all intertwined.With that, I produce five mins to the gent. from Missouri, Mr. Clay. [
Mr. Clay] Thanks a lot, Mr. Chairman. Allow me first welcome Mr. Davis back.
Your portrait and also Mr. Burton’s definitely look. good in this freshly-painted hearing room, do not you assume? Allow me start my wondering about with Mr. Dodaro. Thanks for your statement, and also referrals on means we can make the Federal Federal government. extra efficient as well as save taxpayer dollars.I would such as to concentrate on the Department of. Defense. I am concerned concerning DOD’s pattern of unfavorable. looks in GAO records. As we remain to boost DOD’s spending plan, the firm proceeds. to be plagued by inadequacies, duplicative programs, waste and also in some cases fraud. In. your record, you recognized the DOD’s army health and wellness system as an area of issue for duplication.
as well as redundancy. The record states that the DOD armed forces health system has no main. command authority or solitary entity liable for reducing expenses and accomplishing performance.
That is extremely uncomfortable, offered its mission. Can you share with the committee the yearly.
Mr.Dodaro] It is about $50 billion. [Mr. Clay] Fifty billion for the healthcare. Wow. [Mr. Dodaro] Right. We explain in the report,.
The area that we mention in terms of military health treatment commands is something. We assume. In the wellness care location, Congressman,.
is the cost of prescription drugs, which is a rapid expanding component of healthcare.
We. assume that DOD and also VA collaborating, which they were doing a few years ago, could
produce. some advantages by leveraging their buying power also. They have actually agreed to start revisiting.
Thank you for that response.What effect do you believe the system’s redundancy. Mr. Dodaro]
The quotes that were made. at the time, cost savings can be accomplished in between$ 250 million and I study$ 400 million. a year, depending upon the nature of the consolidation.

[ Mr. Clay] Okay, to ensure that would type of aid. save taxpayers, if they took the recommendations and also implemented them? [Mr.Dodaro] That is proper.
And right now, they are rather.
Mr. Dodaro] They have actually made some marginal changes. in that respect. However we believe they might do more. [
Mr. Clay] Okay, as well as you have actually recommended. different principles that have been on the

table for some time, along with your report,. the Center for Naval Analysis did one in 2006. As well as you also report that DOD authorities typically.
With increasing. DOD is doing sufficient right now to make improvements? I believe they can do more, as.
We will certainly proceed to do researches,. A solitary military command.
There are other options that could be sought. This is a case where. there is social stovepiping by the services, and also
there requires to be some more comprehensive leadership. given bear.I think it is required, giving the fast-rising wellness treatment expenses. [Mr. Clay] Thanks for that action.
Mr. Davis, going back to an effective energy. plan, one argument we listen to is that eliminating
these subsidies would set you back tasks. I note that. from 2005 to 2009 the leading five oil firms have actually decreased their

U.S. labor force by even more. than 10,000. If we moved these aids from oil to wind or other, what would take place. domestic creating power efforts? Would not that stimulate task development in this Nation? [Mr. Davis] I am just not an expert on those. areas. I am one who would allow the market set that, instead than some of these motivations.
We are starting to incentivize wind, we are starting to incentivize some of these.
various other areas. It is having a result, not just on job development, however pre-positioning us for. the future, and a global economic climate. [Chairman Issa]
[Administering] I thank the gentleman.Before I acknowledge Dr. Gosar, we have a request. from 2 participants that have had to leave the dais that there be consentaneous permission for the.
General to revise and also expand your report. I comprehend there is some extra information.
I thank the gent. Dr. Gosar is acknowledged for five minutes. Mr. Davis, I am currently co-sponsoring.
them as well as subject them for termination. I suspect the commission would certainly review this board’s. job.

What function, Mr. Davis, having actually been chairman of this committee, do.
I believe Mr. Dodaro’s report shows a. lot of financial savings in this, if we can get it.
Mr. Chairman, let me just make. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Davis, going back to an effective power.With your experience, what are your ideas
on this, if this regulations were established right into legislation? [Mr. Davis] I would certainly if I were in Congress
co-sponsor it. I assume that is an excellent location to start. One of the important things you have to remember is
when you begin speaking about programs that do not function or that have expired and also the
like, that there are a great deal of single-interest group available that actually do not care about efficiency. As well as they press members, as well as they have their say in this by the time it is over. So it is terrific to have a GAO or a payment
I believe it is a wonderful idea. It is an additional beginning factor on this.
That is where our focus needs to be. * Dr. Gosar. * Dr. Gosar.
buildings, over $1.6 billion a year. I assume there requires to be strategy. Currently, the Management has actually established goals to try to deal with residential or commercial property by the end of 2012.

I believe it is component of Congress’ responsibility to hold them responsible wherefore progression they are making towards accomplishing those goals. * Dr. Gosar. Thank you significantly. I generate the equilibrium of my time. [Chairman Issa] Would certainly the gentleman return? * Dr. Gosar. I would certainly yield. [Chairman Issa] Thanks. Mr. Dodaro, have you looked at some of the excess property in sufficient information to check out things, as an example, I was out at Moffett Area on a board fact-finding. We uncovered that NASA was making use of a reasonably tiny part of it, renting out a small portion of it effectively, and also after that leasing out for de minimis amounts large quantities of it for non-core organization that was very important to the neighborhood. Have you looked at those type of points, of whether companies holding land that is not technically under-utilized, however being utilized for non-core features, did you consider any of those type of items? [Mr. Dodaro] I would certainly need to go back and examine with my team as well as I will certainly offer you a solution for the document, Mr.Chairman, on

that. [Chairman Issa] I appreciate that. One extra one is, you spoke in terms of, the opposite side was asking questions, and I assume it was really informative, you were almost saying we need a second Goldwater-Nichols, that we need to go further in combining the command structures of the army from the point ofview of spending. Is that basically a concise component of your record? [Mr. Dodaro] I believe there needs to be some outside treatment, in order to damage some of the stovepipes down at DOD. [Chairman Issa] Chairman Davis, you have seen this and you were here for the BRAC procedure. Would you state that in reality, that is among the things that committee ought to look at, is lessons found out and failings, if you will, post-BRAC, when they no more belong to the army, yet they are still setting you back the taxpayers? [Mr. Davis] Well, one of the troubles, the McKinney Act was passed, I assume, with the best of intents. At the end of the day, I assume the priorities have changed from just how do we use this land in the neighborhood in some situations to how do we put this back on the tax obligation rolls.Which additionally assisted

those communities, and also just how do we obtain cash
back to the Federal Government. We are borrowing 40 cents on the buck. It is just not sustainable.
We need to begin looking at costs. I concur. [Chairman Issa] Thank you. And also one last inquiry, as a follow-up, Ms. Alexander, you have actually been extremely encouraging of several solutions. I bear in mind that your company and several others were supportive people stripping the courts of the capacity to make the choice that they regrettably made that places us with these billions being lost with oil leases that were flawed. And also I know that we consent to disagree on whether Mr.Markey’s repair would be held constitutional, or whether it would certainly fall into that vindictive.
We attempt to consider them together, We understand the problem of looking at them all side by side. We absolutely do not. assume that we have apples to apples contrasts coming out of the Administration or Congress. as commonly as we would such as. [Chairman Issa] We anticipate functioning. with each other on that particular. With that said, we recognize the gentlelady from. New york city for five mins.
[* Mrs. Maloney] I would certainly like to invite. my former associate, Tom Davis, who did a phenomenal job as chairman of this committee,.
on which I was honored to serve. He was constantly a great competitor for the partisan cause, but. also practical and also paid attention to the minority and also we interacted on a great deal of good expenses.
It is great to see you, we miss you, Tom, welcome back. [Mr. Davis] Thank you. [* Mrs. Maloney] I intend to thank Mr. Dodaro. for your superb record. It is really very helpful, and also the Chairman, for concentrating on. it. This is a time that we need to look at means to safeguard taxpayers’ dollars and also start. minimizing that deficit and financial obligation. Your report says that some oil as well as gas firms. are not paying what they owe under existing leases. I assume that is a little bit of an.
exaggeration. Your examination examined nobility reports for 2006 as well as 2007, as well as located.
that several were merely missing. They additionally located lots of sales records were erroneous.
Specifically, your record mentions that you. discovered many circumstances in which oil and gas manufacturing information were missing out on or sales.
data seemed incorrect. Is that appropriate? [Mr. Dodaro]
That is proper. [* Mrs. Maloney] For just these 2 years alone,. 2006 as well as 2007, your private investigators located that oil and gas business might have kept $117. million in uncollected royalties. That is a staggering quantity. Your record suggests. that factor this may be taking place is since we rely upon oil firms to self-report.
There requires to be extra verification. The Division was.
way behind in maintaining that schedule. [* Mrs. Maloney] Well, why in the world are. we counting on them to self-report, when we have documents that they are not capable. of self-reporting properly? Why on the planet don’t we have the aristocracies reported, what. schedules, by the agency, or at the very least a third celebration? Why worldwide are we counting on. the oil and gas sector that is not reporting properly, according to your own study after. research after study? [Mr. Dodaro]
Our suggestion is that there. is much more confirmation that needs to be done by them.
[* Mrs. Maloney] You are still letting. the companies confirm, fix? [
Interior requires to verify. Inside requires to confirm. Having self-reported info.
can function if there is confirmation by the departments of the balances and also checks, as opposed to go.
out and have individuals individually gauging it.So it can work, yet the Division has.
to do their part to safeguard the taxpayers. That is what you are stating and also that is what.
we have actually claimed in our suggestions. [* Mrs. Maloney] Well, also in your suggestion.
your report suggests that the Federal Federal government utilize independent third event data to supply.
better guarantee that aristocracies are precisely paid. Yet my inquiry is, do you believe it.
is better to have a 3rd event or just have Interior do a far better job validating? [Mr. Dodaro] Well, Interior needs to do a.
better work validating it. They can utilize their own confirmation, they can make use of various other 3rd.
events to support too. That is what we perform in doing our audits and confirmations. You need to utilize every little thing that is readily available to you to substantiate data, to make certain that.
the coverage is as full as possible which taxpayers are protected as well as we are getting.
the profits that we deserve.How a lot do you estimate we would certainly be able. to bring in if they validated
it in a proper way? [Mr. Dodaro] We don’t have a price quote right. currently. [
* Mrs. Maloney] As well as why is it taking as long? Are they verifying now in a far better way? Have they taken the actions to react to your suggestions? [Mr. Dodaro] They are beginning to, from the. group. We are going to be following
up and remaining on this, as well as we will provide routine. records to this committee. [
Do you think it is important.
Mr.Dodaro] I believe you should have Inside. up right here and also discuss what they are doing and the relevance of doing it.
I think a normal. oversight is very important. We have actually done job. The Assessor General has actually done work over there. We are proceeding to do our part. So I assume that it is great to have actually sustained follow-up. with the division that is responsible for taking care of these matters. [* Mrs. Maloney] Well, I regret that there. was an amendment that I authored in one more board, and the debate took place just until. currently. So I missed out on a lot
of your statement. In the 21 seconds left, I want to ask. you, in your report, what various other location in government can we manage much better and conserve funds? Obviously. the oil as well as gas has historically been an area of remarkable abuse, specifically on oil removed. from federally-owned lands.But what other group in federal government do you believe,

if we. managed it much better, we would certainly have the ability to save taxpayers dollars as well as make a dent in this. dreadful shortage we have? [Mr. Dodaro]
The Department of Defense is an opportunity there, I believe,. I think the IRS can and must carry out a number of our referrals. I believe all those are truly excellent opportunities,.
have to go beyond simply these programs and to entitlement costs also. [My time is expired. Say thanks to. I say thanks to the gentlelady.
Mr. Davis, I believe you wanted to respond to. Mr. Davis]
I just wanted to, Mr. Issa had. asked a question previously where he discussed, he asked something comparable. There is a lot.
of cost savings between companies, where they can chart sharing services. I know they point.
to that in the record. It had not been simply the focus of this record. Agencies can share.
solutions. Now it is just very stovepiped in regards to the way they check out it, the means.
they are budgeted. As well as they hesitate to do that. But you can conserve literally billions of dollars,.
probably tens of billions, if they could share solutions between agencies.As we spoke around

,. the most effective image being medical records in between VA as well as DOD. There is no reason you. need 2 different lists.
That is the kind of point, the partnership. I give thanks to the gentleman. In closing, in fact for the gentlelady’s.
edification, as well, due to the fact that I believe Mr. Dodaro did it extremely well when he was describing something.
to us, this third event data that we intend to check out better with the GAO, the concept.
of when an oil business takes oil, they put it onto a vessel that is weighed and also determined. They offload it as well as it is metered. This is all 3rd party data, that if we gathered.
all of it, it would certainly be almost difficult not to see any inconsistencies between what is reported.
therefore on.This is additionally, earlier, what they stated around.
the internal revenue service. The reality is that if somebody says, I do not have any kind of money, and also yet you see.
bank card invoices saying they are spending money, if that information is compared within the.
Irs, that 3rd party collaboration, due to the fact that bear in mind, IRS is voluntarily.
reported, too. Some people don’t quite report properly, as they found when.
people were claiming what they lost in Louisiana, and it really did not match anything that they had.
ever before proclaimed. So I eagerly anticipate collaborating with the gentlelady.
on that.In closing, specifically for Mr. Dodaro, our. purpose in the board is to have you back on an approximately quarterly basis. I hope.
that either you or a marked representative would be able to do that, so we can continue.
this dialogue in a means to stay on top of what you are doing and naturally, on top of what.
the Management is agreeing to do. In addition, I wish to again repeat for the.
document that the commitment to pursue a variety of areas you have covered here today, including.
all-natural gas and oil, and also find constitutional methods to maintain from losing the cash that we.
are losing, as well as specifically, we are going to have the brand-new agency, the Ocean Power Monitoring,.
the old MMS, we plan to have them back.Out of deference to the reconstruction that. was introduced by Interior, we are attempting to provide an affordable amount of time. . Carolyn, we are going to have them in, particularly, as we did when Chairman Davis had them in.
continuously. I desire to thank the witnesses today. I.
would certainly such as to have you all back. I suspect, as a result of your competence, we will have you.
all back.And this committee stands adjourned. [* Mrs. Maloney] And also my declaration in the record. I ask consentaneous consent. [Chairman Issa] Oh, sorry, as well as consentaneous consent.
that your declaration and also all statements might be positioned into the record, for up to 7.
As well as all of you, by unanimous.
We stand adjourned. Whereupon, at 12:45 p.m., the board was.
adjourned.]

I desire to thank Mr. Dodaro. Mr. Dodaro] Mr. Dodaro] Mr. Dodaro] Mr. Davis, I think you wanted to respond to.

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