okay the next item of business is debate on motion four one three eight in the name of silly ann somerville on reducing the cost of the school day for low-income families and invite members who take part in the debate to press the request to speak buttons or place an on the chat function as soon as possible and i call on shirley and somerville to speak to and move the motion for around 15 minutes cabinet secretary thank you very much presiding officer i'm pleased to be able to open this debate and move the motion in my name on a very important issue on the reduction of the cost of the school day child poverty is an issue which we would of course all wish to see eradicated and this debate provides an opportunity to consider the actions which we can take through schools to reduce the cost of the school day and provide further support to families experiencing low income these actions of course do not stand alone they are one strand of our work to tackle child poverty and support families and i'll use the opportunity today to set out our reports and to highlight the range of actions that we are taking on this important issue the government wants the best starts and a bright future for all children and young people in scotland we want to make this country the best place for them to grow up a place where they can thrive and prosper as they realize their potential but all too often that potential is hampered by the blight of poverty and inequality that is why our national mission to tackle child poverty is so vital our second tackling child poverty delivery plan published only last month sets out how we will drive forward our national mission recognising the contributions all parts of society must make for all of scotland it sets our critical path towards meeting the ambitious statutory targets to significantly reduce child poverty by 2030 as laid out in the 2017 child poverty act unanimously passed by this parliament yes i'm duncan glantzy i thank the cabinet safety for for taking this intervention does the cabinet secretary recognize that three out of four of the child poverty targets will be missed next year governor secretary well i think it's very important to recognize as we did last month the important work that has been done by this parliament but as was also set out the difficulties that we will continue to have tackling child poverty and indeed all poverty and inequality in this scotland as we face the the welfare cuts from westminster and the universal credit 20 pound cut is just but one example that makes it does make it exceptionally difficult for us to meet our targets but we are determined to do so as the cabinet secretary laid out when she um launched that plan just last month the new plan is backed by up to 113 million pounds of additional investment in 2223 including to mitigate the benefit cap to further increase the game-changing scottish child payment to 25 pound a week and to deliver a new employability offer for parents the actions we have set out are putting money in the pockets of families now helping them to tackle the cost of living crisis and setting a course for sustainable reductions in child poverty by 2030 high quality early learning and child care can make a huge difference to children's lives particularly when they are growing up in more disadvantaged circumstances evidence shows that accessible and high quality elc helps to provide children with skills and confidence to carry into school education and is a cornerstone for closing the poverty-related attainment gap since august 2021 all councils have been offering 11 40 hours of funded elc to eligible children making high quality early learning and child care available to families and saving parents up to 4 900 pounds a year for each eligible child it has been a significant achievement in the face of the pandemic by local governments and our local delivery partners in the private third and voluntary sector to achieve these levels of provision and the uptake we are now seeing and i would pay credit to the work that they are doing on this issue yes does the cabinet secretary accept that the funding formula that's currently used within our councils is unfair for the pvi sector and does she agree that there's something that needs to be done in order to sort that cabinet so of course we are investing heavily in elc right across the provision office but we are looking at very carefully um at what is happening with private providers that's exactly why the government's already taken undertaking work in the financial health tech for example and are continuing to work with local authorities and and private providers to ensure that we not only understand what is happening within the system but we are acting um upon that and the minister is in close contact of course with those providers to talk through those issues with them as i know she has done very regularly this year of course we will also begin engagement with families on setting out our ambition for the early learning and child care to all one in two euros this will start in the course of this parliament with children from low income households our vision is to develop an offer that will contribute to supporting the well-being of the whole family and it is important that we engage directly with families also the early learning sector and academic experts to design how the new offer can best support children and families we will be guided by what the evidence tells us about what is best for children and families depending on the age and stage of the child as set out in best start bright futures tackling child poverty delivery plan for 2226 we will also be conducting an eligibility review in order to ensure a coherent joined up system for families and aligning with plans for the expansion of school-aged child care we're contributing to reducing costs for families further by committing to transformational reform as we design a new system of wrap around school-aged child care offering care before and after school and during the holidays free to low-income families helping to support parents and carers to have secure and stable employment if they wish to do so our new system will also help to reduce inequalities and access to a range of activities around the school day for children from low-income households children will have access to a range of activities offering them life enhancing experiences including positive learning and developmental opportunities building a new system for school-aged healthcare which is accessible affordable and flexible will play a pivotal role in our mission towards tackling child poverty especially of course for those families on lower incomes this will have positive outcomes for the parents as well leading to sustainable employment and increased earnings enabling families to lift themselves out of poverty this year we are also investing 10 million pounds into a targeted summer 22 offer for children and families in low-income households which will provide coordinated access to food child care and activities during the holidays the school holidays should be a time for fun and our summer 22 offer will support young people with their well-being through access to a range of activities furthermore of course we will continue to provide funding for the payments vouchers and meals during all school holidays for those eligible for free school meals on the basis of low income as part of our phased expansion of three school meals yes stephen care the cabinet secretary in relation to those who are eligible for example for free school meals or for the school clothing grant what proportion of those entitled to this support are actually getting the support cabernet secretary and give you time back for all these interventions i i presume i think the member m is talking about them how many of the the families are coming forward four four free school meals that we think are eligible for that and i would recognize this as a challenge that we have and i would actually say the challenge um is is it made even more difficult in some ways because of the universality that we have in p125 and therefore a recognition that we then need to encourage those that aren't on free school meals so i don't have the exact figures to hand i'm happy to to provide those in writing to the member who doesn't have them already but it is something that i'm aware we have a challenge on and something we do need to look at and it's made more complicated by the universality but i think that is a good complication to have in many ways and of course i will come back to free school meals and universality later on in my speech we also recognize that transformational change is needed um for providing holistic support for families that's why through our programme for government in 2021 we have committed to investing 50 500 million pounds over the lifetime of this parliament and the whole family wellbeing funding this will enable the building of universal holistic support services available in communities right across scotland giving families access to the help they need where and when they need it for as long as they need it in collaboration with our partners we are developing an ambitious program seeking to drive whole system change to shift from crisis intervention to early preventative support we now have a clear collective vision about what good family support looks like and the key features that characterize it underpinned by the principles of the promise delivering this vision will help families to thrive to stay together and contribute to key national priorities including delivering the promise martin whitfield grateful deputy presiding officers i'm very grateful um to be able to take the intervention does this include looking at the data sharing challenges that exist between local authorities third sector and charities and indeed central government when we reach this because the data seems to be siloed in different places well it is always a challenge when we're talking about any holistic approaches the data sharing and the challenges that are that are within that i think we do need to recognize em that if we are going to have holistic support we will need to face up to those challenges and find a way through it and i'm happy to work with the member on that and indeed on other issues on the whole family well-being fund because i do believe this could be generally genuinely transformational if we get this right and data is but one of the many challenges that we will face uh praising off some conscious of time the number of inter inventions but i will try and get through the rest of my speech we have a bit of time in hand cabinet segregation i'm so happy to hear i have more time for interventions to design officer um as we progress through the new parliamentary term our mission to tackle the poverty-related attainment gap is of course as important as ever and we're committed to strengthening the links between this and our national mission on child poverty that's why the refresh scores attainment challenge program that i launched at the end of march has a new mission to use education to improve outcomes for children and young people impacted by poverty with a focus on tackling the poverty related detainment gap by removing barriers faced as a result of low income we can ensure children young people have the same opportunities to succeed working together with local authorities education scotland and schools on the back of 750 million pound investment over the last parliamentary term we're of course investing one billion pound over the course of this parliament term in the scottish attainment challenge programme i recently announced the pupil equity funding of over half a billion pounds which will continue to empower our head teachers over the next four years so schools can support the children and young people who need it most local authorities and schools will continue to make local decisions on how best to support children and young people impacted by poverty with funding for the first time allocated to each and every local authority to drive forward a joint mission funding will support approaches in the classroom and approaches that reach beyond the school gates to mitigate the barriers to learning caused by poverty this is expected to have a long-term impact on the readiness of children and young people impacted by poverty to enter and sustain positive destinations michael mayer i appreciate mr given weight you recognize that the poverty-related attainment gap is as wide as it has ever been following the pandemic certainly a huge impact but the number three quotes represents a cut on last year's money can you justify that government secretary well i have said that we are investing 750 million in the last parliament one billion pounds in this parliament it has a of course been the case that last financial year we had a 20 million pound a covered premium that we could add if only the uk government had given the scottish government the ability to have more consequences to deal with covert which is still very much with the education system over the next financial year we could have perhaps repeated that unfortunately we are instead in terms of a real terms cut to the funding for the scottish government overall presiding officer we spoke earlier on about free school meals and the importance of free school meals and that is widely recognised we've been providing free school lunches during school turn time to all children primary one to three since january 2015 we've committed to going even further and those universal school free lunches are now available to all children and primaries one to five we'll continue with our expansion of universal provision throughout the remainder of this parliamentary term to make free school lunches available to all children in primary and special schools indeed this year's budget includes an additional 42.2 million pounds of funding to support the provision to primary four and five in special schools and 30 million pounds of capital for initial investment and infrastructure needed including dining and catering facilities ahead of the rollout aligned to this during this parliamentary term we'll also work with local authorities to introduce a universal school milk scheme in primary and secondary schools i'll now turn to the school clothing grant it's important every child in scotland should be able to attend school feeling comfortable confident and ready to learn i know that buying school uniforms is one of the biggest costs associated with attending school that's exactly why we've increased the national minimum school clothing grant from its previous level of 100 pound per child to 120 pound per eligible people in primary schools up to 150 pounds per eligible people in secondary schools last year this partnership approach with local authorities is supported by 11.8 million pounds of funding to provide that support to local authorities i also appreciate that not all families are eligible to receive the school clothing grant so that is why we are also introducing statutory guidance for schools during this parliament the guidance will seek to assist schools in reducing the cost of school uniforms for families we'll also consult on the principles of a national school uniform policy and use the findings of that consultation to inform the new national guidance in light of the consultation the scope of the guidance is yet to be fully confirmed but is expected that alongside support for reducing costs of school uniform the guidance will address equalities issues clothing for pe and sport an example of approaches already in place which reduce the cost of uniforms for families as part of our approach to reducing barriers to participation in education we have also continued to support the removal of core curriculum costs for primary and secondary pupils this of course ensures that families don't need to meet the cost of resources and materials for practical lessons we're also supporting families with the cost of instrumental music tuition we've already provided local authorities with funding to ensure that no payment can be charged for instrumental music tuition during this academic year and we're working with addis and koslot on a sustainable funding package for the future as part of our emergency response to the closure of school buildings at the outset of the pandemic we also provided 25 million pounds in 2021 to tackle digital exclusion that investment resulted in more than 72 000 of our most disadvantaged children and young people receiving a device to support their learning recognizing the increasing importance of technology and education councils across scotland have invested their own in their own devices like programs and we understand that in total almost 280 000 devices have been or are in the process of being distributed to learners the pandemic has reinforced the importance of digital technology and that's why we are committed to ensuring every school child in scotland has access to both a device and connectivity by the end of this parliament in 2026 i'm afraid i'm already well over my time and a convener from the committing my apologies um but i'm sure you will make your point for me um to return to in closing in conclusion at this point though however presiding officer we are working across government and with our partners to deliver our commitments to child poverty we recognize that our schools and services which support families have a key part to play in delivering our commitments and we're seeking to change the experiences for those who are affected by low income in order to provide opportunities and experiences including through education which help them to reach their full potential i look forward to hearing from members right across the chamber on their reflections and aspirations for young people during the course of this afternoon's debate and remove the motion and mining thank you thank you very much indeed cabinet secretary before i call the next speaker just a reminder um given the number of interventions there that if you do make an intervention you may find if you want to speak later in the debate you need to repress your request to speak buttons and i call oliver mandel to speak to the move amendment 4138.2 for around 11 minutes mr mundell thank you presiding officer and i move the amendment in my name back in 2015 nicholas sturgeon said and i quote let me be clear i want to be judged on this if you're not as first minister prepared to put your neck on the line for the education of our young people then what are you prepared to it really matters i agreed then i and i agree now the problem for this snp government and in turn for scotland's young people is that that rhetoric and reality have never been further apart with every passing day those words become more and more hollow i've lost track of how many of these debates i've sat through and participated in in the last six years snp minister after minister stands up and sets out all these wonderful things they're just about to get round to doing it's depressing and it borders on the insulting when this snp government have had 15 years in power to actually get on and do things all we hear is that it's too hard or too complicated or best of all that all the problems will go away if only we dish out a few laptops and promise people a bike the truth is that many of the problems we're talking about today have been created on the snp's watch while it might be politically convenient to scream tories every time the going gets tough it's snp cuts to local government budgets that have seen education squeezed and are schools left so short of resources that they sometimes even struggle to function we've heard at the education committee only this past week that many schools are using attainment funding just to keep the show on the road i know myself having been lucky enough to be educated before the snp came to power that schools used to have enough resources not to have to charge young people for the basics it didn't need to be written into guidance or law they were able to do the right thing because they had the budget flexibility instead what we see today is an endless stream of policies and announcements at a national level lots of alleged new funding but in turn we see core school budgets squeezed to the point where stationary and other basic equipment is being topped up by teachers and charitable sources certainly i believe in 2021 it was the sixth year in a row that education gross revenue expenditure saw a real terms increase that it does not exactly match the picture that the member is painting oliver winter well i'd be very surprised then if the cabinet secretary's speaking to schools to pupils to parents to local authorities who all see resources under more pressure than ever before and i don't know how any government can claim education is our top priority when schools are struggling to provide the basic materials in order for people to participate fully in lessons let's all certainly market whitfield i'm very grateful deputy presiding officer um would you agree with me that it is seems to be only teachers as a profession who come to us to say that they have to contribute to what they need day to day to make their classrooms work we don't hear the same from surgeons or indeed lawyers oliver mundo yeah we certainly don't hear the same from politicians or scottish government ministers so let's also remember that this is a government that was all too happy to oversee a culture of exorbitant charges for music tuition it's under their watch that this became commonplace shamefully now they come to this chamber and seek our thanks for intervening but having i been in the previous parliament and listened many times to the deputy first minister then education secretary telling us that this couldn't be done i i find this all uh very depressing um and the idea uh that somehow these were all local choices that councils just came up with i'm you know is is just not frankly believable the truth is this is another symptom of the squeeze we're seeing on education budgets and again this routine speaks the true motivations of the snp young people suffer but it's okay as long as the snp can put something nice in their manifesto promising to solve a problem they created on their own watch then we move on to free school meals and breakfasts given the cross-party support in this parliament have you ever seen a government move so slowly where is the urgency let's reflect on the fact for a second that we now live in a scotland where charities tell us that under the eligibility thresholds there are less young people entitled to free school meals than there were 20 years ago something has gone badly wrong or on reducing the cost of school uniform lots of words but where has been the drive to change practice why are so many schools still encouraging branded items it's not good enough to identify the problem after 15 years you have to have shown some willing to actually do something about it perhaps if our education agencies weren't so weak and dysfunctional our inspectorate was more rigorous these messages might have got out there perhaps the central education teams at local authorities had the capacity beyond firefighting they might have been able to work with schools on these types of issues i could go on and on but you start to see the pattern for this snp government it's more important that things sound good in this chamber than they're actually deliverable for those who need our education system the most yes some things might have got better but overall this last 15 years has been a period of stagnation at best and has ultimately seen decline under this snp government education has lost its sense of purpose a toxic combination of botched attempts at radical reform and empty sound bites have taken precedence over a system that delivers for our young people vague notions of well-being are now more important than doing well and under the curriculum for excellence we see a methodology that serves those who would do well under any system rather than a truly progressive knowledge-based mindset that's ambitious for every young person education should help break down barriers and create opportunities it should not be about lowering expectations too often that's what this snp government's approach looks like and this doesn't hurt those who are well supported and resourced at home they get a head start this impacts most on those who come to school to learn by cutting teacher numbers and limiting school resources a deliberate choice is being made again how any snp minister can stand up in this chamber with a straight face and claim that teacher numbers are at the highest level since they started to cut them is beyond me at least i suppose there has been some recognition and admission that cutting school staff to the bone was the wrong thing to do this was painfully exposed during the pandemic and again all of the evidence suggests it was our most vulnerable young people who once again paid the price rather than self-congratulatory rhetoric maybe the minister might start by apologizing or can we take another issue the funding received to support those in poverty in rural communities like my own fisher constituency again side officer i can tell you how many times i've raised this issue in parliament yet we continue to hear that the government's always looking for better ways of doing things the idea that there are no young people in poverty in some small rural schools in this country which receive no pet funding is quite frankly absurd yes clear hobby i think the member for taking that intervention i assume that oliver mundell isn't forgetting about many of the cruel social security cuts presided over by his colleagues in westminster including the recent cut of 20 pounds to universal credit which is resulting in more parents struggling to put food on the table and feed their children oliver mundo i i'm not denying that there are challenges there but once again once again we're seeing the typical approach from this snp government that rather than answer questions about the things they're responsible for they'd rather talk about anything else and maybe maybe if the minister wants to intervene and tell me if it's acceptable that there are young people in poverty at some schools in our country who under their current funding formula don't receive any additional funding then i'd be happy to take another intervention uh but quite frankly uh telling us time and time again yes cabinet secretary of course the funding packages around free school meals and also importantly we're looking at the number of children in low-income families if he does not agree with those measures of data about measuring poverty particularly the number of children in low-income families which is specific and then 97 of schools right across scotland that get the pupil equity funding if he disagrees with that will he tell us what a ratio he would like us to use for funding oliver mandela i thank the minister for that intervention but i go back to what she said earlier in the debate to my colleague stephen care which is not all families are taking up their eligibility that's a starting point i don't think that is a good problem to have it's not a new problem and it's not being created it's not been created by universality in rural communities there are many young people who've gone without meals they're entitled to for years and the scottish government should stop using that as the model for allocating funding yes it's welcome we've started looking at low-income families but that does not apply to pest funding the government could have made that change they decided not to and that's before we move on to the challenge of even getting to school in rural communities again council budgets have been squeezed so hard and the government point us in the direction of local authorities discretion but what discretion does a local authority have to provide transport in rural areas outside of the statutory mileage limits when they have no money to do so presiding officer it all speaks to a lack of priority and an unwillingness to be upfront about the true scale of the challenge and as i conclude i think it is worth noting how today's debate only found time in the weeks ahead of the local government elections if the issues set out today aren't enough to convince you of the lack of priority given to education under the snp then the amount of parliamentary times spared to discuss it certainly should this is an snp government that does little more than pretend it cares yes there are lots of worthwhile initiatives but we must remember the amount to absolutely nothing if they're not delivered until ministers deliver on their promises they should stop coming to this chamber patting themselves on the back they are responsible and scotland's young people are being failed behind all the bluff and bluster what do they really have to show for 15 years in power thank you miss mandel and i now call on michael marra to speak to and move amendment 4138.1 mr mayor thank you president i happily move labour's amendment in my name scottish labour are absolutely committed to the removal of the barriers to the full experience of education for every family in scotland but teachers head teachers churches and school communities have long recognized these barriers and worked over many decades to help as many young people access school trips and extracurricular activities which make a huge difference to their lives it is absolutely right that good practice be adopted nationwide and the government has a critical and key role to play in ensuring that is the case we know that far too many significant barriers remain and there is our need for real poverty sensitive policy in our schools as the child poverty action group and i think we should put on record the much work that has been done by that group um in recent years so key to the development of the cost of the school day policies they have stated that the development of development of poverty sensitive school policies and practices reduced cost barriers increased participation in school and after school activities reduced financial pressures and improved promotion and uptake of entitlements much to be celebrated but further testimony quotes one parent of many that they spoke to times are hard when paying for the family home food child care and general child costs parents just need to do without to ensure that the kids don't and that's a common experience i think across scotland ever more so as bills increase and that household budgets are ever squeezed and we know the cost of living crisis gets worse week by week and will continue into the autumn when fuel prices will are set to rise again but parents are regularly going without meals in scotland to ensure that their children can keep their friendships as they see it they can and that they can smile and they can feel like all the other kids and that is still necessary demands the kind of stop-gap measures because i believe that's what they are outlined in the government motion but they also demand that we talk about why they happen in the first place why work does not pay enough to make a decent life for a family why too many are locked out of employment and why scotland's economy continues to stagnate with chronically low levels of productivity a yawning innovation gap low levels of research and development a positive technology uptake and key skills gaps in critical industries but one crucial part of the solution and it's detailed in labour's motion today is truly flexible wrap around child care that is available and affordable and the minister had some words to say in that in her opening speech but labour's the amendment today focuses not on what has happened or not happened and i'll come on to that in a moment but on what needs to be done next if families continue to be locked out of the workplace because it does not make financial sense to work given the absence or expense of child care then we have a system that is broken and an urgent need of repair and the cabinet said to have some warm words in those speech um and i am assuming that this is a kind of a preamble to saying we're already doing all the things that labour are asking for in their amendment but after 15 years they will be now be hearing the representations that we on these benches are hearing on a weekly basis from people who run nurseries people who would love to have their kids in nurseries get families who can't take on the extra hours that they would be able to put money into the bank accounts to pay for many of the things they want for their children and this requires a public published analysis of what is going on in our child care sector because they have been profoundly disrupted by the pandemic and i regularly hear from those operators who are losing staff and are unable to replace them so behavior and working patterns have changed for a huge percentage of the population that has to be recognized but that is threatening the business models of current service providers of needs have shifted and changed in new ways and labour believes that urgent assessment is required of the health of the sector and the scottish government should commission that work rather than having private conversations behind closed doors so there's a significant impact and let's be clear on this on the most impoverished communities and families than the lack of that child care the lack of its availability and the steadfast refusal of this government to quantify the impact of the pandemic on the life chances of the poorest children in this country so the list of interventions that the government has put together in this motion today is a list of words rather than real actions in many cases many of these initiatives have yet to be delivered and the cabinet secretary shakes our head at that some are years away from being so if they were ever be delivered digital devices we know how slow the roll out of that has been we know frankly that digital devices were needed last year more than ever and we know that hundreds of thousands of them won't be delivered for years to come the figures just mentioned today seemingly an update around 220 000 is approaching 30 of the number that will be required and at the moment when when need has been greatest is frankly not good enough so i've spoken with head teachers across scotland who have used pef money for these purposes to ensure that young people do not miss out to upgrade the kinds of additional experiences that schools can offer can offer so the cuts to central attainment funding this year of 27 million pounds on last year shows the real priority the government gives to these efforts the real just the real and priority that they do in all of their spending plans and answer to my intervention there was no real justification because this is a question of priorities what do we think that money should be spent on so we know the audit scotland said that very limited progress had been made to closing the attainment gap we know the attainment gap is now its greatest and largest level ever the idea that that's the point in which you cut the money that you don't find the additional resource from somewhere else to actually allow you to accelerate because if we go back onto the same track that we were on pre-pandemic we're bound to fail without any doubt because the resource won't be there most certainly the figures do actually show that we were making progress in tackling poverty-related detainment gap before the pandemic but i'm afraid mr mahrez speech up until now um has been a long list of demands of what the government should spend on but at the budget every single year his party do not deliver any budgeted costings to actually be able to deliver this so if there's any danger of warm words and little action it's from the labour party who continue to demand the government does something we are doing a lot on education but the war words and the demands from him are all about little michael murrah i'm afraid afraid to say the cabinet says is entirely false labor provided costed budget proposals this year as they had previous years and we absolutely believe that education has to be a priority for investment in this parliament it's the the question the question that has to be put to the cabinet secretary is why she was singularly unsuccessful in winning any arguments around the cabinet table to get the investment in her portfolio from early years to primary school secondary school the cuts to education in colleges and university every part of her portfolio screaming out loud saying that she can't win the arguments that required to be one for our future no you've had your chance thank you very much the child poverty the child poverty action group have been behind so much of the policy drought thank you thank you please come on cabinet secretary i'll thank the member for for giving away eventually investment in education is actually from resourcing capital spending 2023 up almost 200 million pounds that's an increase but if he doesn't think that that's satisfactory where does he want it to come from in the rest of the scottish budget is it health is it justice where does it come from because once again we're getting rhetoric and very little else michael murray i think perhaps that perhaps the cabinet secretary perhaps the cabinet sector is deaf to the many of the other conversations that are going on in this in this uh in this chamber in recent weeks perhaps it could come from the grotesque waste that this government undertakes on a day-to-day basis this party laid out last week three billion pounds of waste from this from this government in recent years we look at the ferry scandal and the amount of money that's been poured down the drain this government cannot no thank you sir this this government cannot talk about the prudent no thank you sir no thank you president also this government does not have a record where they can talk about the prudent management of the finances of this country and the responsible expenditure of taxpayers money because that is what it is this funding was meant to help close the attainment gap and it is one billion pounds of taxpayers money and that gap is bigger than ever and we have to remember the first minister's personal defining mission the top priority of this government so just last week we saw that as a cut to the poorest communities of attainment funding of 60 the eis had to say this cabinet secretary we have been absolutely appalled at the level of funding cuts at six of the original challenge authorities it beggars belief as to why those cuts will be made at a time when poverty is rising and the pandemic is absolutely bludgeoned some communities the eis is words school leader scotland said we know the number of young people impacted by deprivation in these nine challenge areas surely it is immoral to take away that funding the nesuwt said it's clearly not right to be making those swinging cuts swinging cuts and that will certainly have a negative impact in those areas the cabinet secretary knows she has cut this money 60 for the most impoverished communities in scotland 79 in my home city of dundee and a former head teacher a former head teacher in dundee saying that no they have he has no idea how dundee can cope with a cut of over 100 posts presiding officer for those working with the most deprived so this is the way that the funding works it's critical to deliver more equal education why won't the minister listen to these voices because it doesn't sound like she's listening to ours thank you mr mara and we will now move to the open debate and i call eleanor whittham to be followed by stephen care miss whitney standing up presiding officer no young person should be unable to fully participate in their school life no young person should lie awake worrying about finding money for dress down days book sales and bake sales no young person should be prevented from tuition and favorite subjects such as home economics or music due to family budget pressures no child should miss school due to the stigma brought on by poverty and disadvantage and no child should miss out on the excitement and the challenge of their school residential because the fee set is amounting to climb itself i remember my school days clearly and whilst most of those memories are formed the time we were experiencing deep poverty when i was about eight is forever etched in my soul despite those memories being the ones i would rather forget i've already spoken in this place about the hunger the food banks and the anxiety i had surrounding food and security but i also remember clearly not having so much as a quarter to buy a cake at the many fundraising bake sales i remember scouring the scholastic book leaflet that was popped into my school bag earmarking all the books i would choose if money was not so tight and i watched with envy my cheeks burning with stigma and shame as the box of books arrived in the classroom and was unpacked with gleeful happy kids running up to fetch theirs when the teacher shouted their name even at that young age i knew the pressures my parents were under and i hadn't even shown them the form less it made the whole situation worse kids in poverty make these decisions all of the time to protect themselves and their carers i can also vividly remember my toes cramping at the front of my shoes as they began to pinch but not saying a word right now in our country there are young people ignoring their pinched toes crumpling up and hiding away their book form feigning our sore belly on yet another non-uniform day and dreaming of a p7 school residential they know they won't be able to attend deputy presiding officer we know that this is damaging for the well-being of our young folk and we all know that this adds to the poverty-related attainment gap when you spend your life worrying as a small child about money and food you will often struggle to focus on anything else including your lessons this is why reducing the cost of the school day for low-income families is crucial and while rec and recognizing the ongoing work across national local government and third sector partners in this area is key and i welcome the cabinet secretary's recommitment to delivering on our priority policies according to the child poverty action group who have pioneered this work and their cost of the school day program removing cost barriers at school helps to build the right foundations and conditions for better participation well-being and attainment boosting incomes through access to financial entitlements helps to support families in the here and the now and contributes to the wider national mission of ending child poverty an independent evaluation of the cost of the school day program found that these approaches can support increased understanding of child poverty the development of poverty-sensitive school policies and practices reduced cost barriers increased participation in school and after-school activities reduced financial pressures and improved promotion and uptake of entitlements as a member of the party of government i am proud that we've created the scottish health payment and i'm glad that our budget decisions ensured that we will be increasing it to 25 pounds per week per child this money is vital to help those families facing the worst effects of the tory cost of living crisis and who will have experienced the worst cut to welfare and living memory i know that the opposition may say that the uplift was only ever to be temporary but when every penny is a prisoner and that extra 20 quid a week meant not a trip a trip to the food bank having it snatched away again only results in further poverty and debt it's not like a banker's bonus it's not a nice wee bung this made a huge difference to families and its removal was cruel our welcome decision to mitigate the uk tory benefit cap including the hated rape clause will also mean that those larger families who were plunged into absolute poverty will see a marked improvement to their finances my own snp led local authority area new stairs where i'm still counsellor for exactly 10 more days is making great strides in reducing the cost of the school day in a number of ways with our poverty proofing our establishments program which uses innovative ideas to help families including everything from using the path funding for something like a school steamy where the entire community has access to clothes washing facilities to free breakfast clubs and reducing hunger and food waste by packaging up surplus school food for children to help themselves to on the way out the door on the way home from school many schools are also holding clothing swaps as it's recognized children don't just grow over the summer time children continue to grow right throughout the year i don't have time sorry i normally would and we have ensured that free period products are also available multiple locations but these can also be ordered and delivered straight to the home for all via an online form and we've made great strides in allocating digital devices and connectivity to ensure pupils have the tools they need for learning if you listen to everybody else in this place today you'd think that no child has received a laptop nor the connectivity that they need holiday times can be very hard for families and we've ensured that we have school meal provision coupled with access to free activities and outings a very simple and yet effective tool has been the move towards automatic awards for preschool meals and clothing grants to reduce the stigma of the application process and to increase uptake and i think we all recognize right across the chamber that increasing uptake is vital that we need to make sure that we do it but do remember over three quarters of families are already in receipt of the scottish health payment presenting officer these measures that are in the government's motion i don't have time sorry and complement the wide range of policy initiatives including and the scottish government's child poverty strategy for scotland to maximize household resources and improve children's well-being and life chances i'm sure we can all agree that this has never been more important as cost sore and family budgets are squeezed like never before all of our children deserve a supportive and nurturing school environment free from money worries thank you thank you i now call steven care to be followed by paul mclean mr carr ellen witten has pointed out that the snp promised every child in scotland schools a free device and a free internet connection and they're failing to deliver that so i've always believed that education is the best tool for social empowerment it's one of our country's greatest achievements that taxpayers fund education for every child that calls here home a privilege that many millions of children around the world do not enjoy as a right and as has been highlighted by the contributions already made taxpayer-funded education does not instantly create equal opportunities within our education system as a conservative creating equal opportunities for every child regardless of family income can succeed is is at the heart of my politics but also at the heart of my politics is pragmatism and it is correct to remind ourselves that creating equality of opportunity will not occur with one policy idea alone there must be a wide range of policies and three of which i intend to address briefly in my speech first we must raise the standard of education across our schools we don't create equality of opportunity by lowering standards in scottish education professor lindsey patterson has said that available data shows that low status students do well in england as well as in scotland while high status students do better in england he goes on it would thus be highly disingenuous to say that only that inequality in scotland is falling and is less than in england inequality also fell in england mainly by raising the low status students while also raising high status students scotland raised low state students by less and depressed high status students it would not be reasonable he says to describe this as better progress towards the quality of outcome in scotland than in england and i know it's a comparison the snp love to make all the time the snp have run out of ideas to improve education stars in scotland while they offer slogans and expensive promises international league tables and the increasing attainment gap show the continuous decline of scottish education on the snp's watch rather than believe that more bureaucracy is the answer to our problems the scottish conservatives want to restore the values that made scottish education the envy of the world we want to empower teachers in the classroom allowing them to decide what approach is best for pupils in their school second we must ensure that support is made available to the poorest families and that that support reaches them just yesterday meeting with teachers from schools in the western partnership area i was forcibly reminded that that support is not getting to the families that most need it those who most need the help are often the ones not accessing it yes i will they're hungry making the intervention and i hear what he's saying about him targeting money to low-income families but does he also recognize that many of the actions that this scottish government takes to support low-income families for example increasing the scottish child payment is simply undermined by his colleagues at westminster when they raised benefits by three percent and when they cut universal credit stephen care the minister the minister may not like it but we're here today examining the record of the scottish government and i know that you all love to talk about the tory government at westminster but we're actually here to hold the scottish government to account now not only is there a problem with accessing accessing support but there's an issue even with eligibility as has been mentioned by my colleague according to our lawyer fewer children are eligible for free school meals today in scotland than 20 years ago in 2002 low income working families with an income of just over 13 000 pounds were eligible for free school meals today that income threshold is little more than 16 000.
Adjusted for inflation however the income threshold from two decades ago would be the equivalent of around 22 000 pounds in 2021 to ensure that the families that need support get support the scottish conservatives are committed to introducing preschool breakfast and lunches for all primary school children and why the government with such cross-party support in this place for such a measure doesn't make haste is completely beyond my recognition i'll take her in from the cabinet 74 cabinet secretary the practical points about why um we need to provide capital expenditure for local authorities is if we actually increased free school meals for primary six and seven at this point well there's not the catering facilities available what we would have in areas is actually a cold lunch being provided that isn't actually as good as the hot lunch which thanks to the cuts and welfare down westminster is likely to be some things that only hot meal a child will get so we would have actually seen the which is why we're demonstration that we're taking our time to get their site capital and revenue expenditure working together to provide that stephen carr the cabinets every once again portfolio obsession with blaming other people for the lack of progress our government makes it measures where there is cross-party support in this chamber and during the school holidays we also support the provision of free school meals for eligible families would ensure that the income threshold is adjusted to take inflation into account third we must create the economic conditions for family incomes to rise across scotland research published yesterday by the scottish trade unions congress an unlikely ally you must i must admit found that the average take-home pay for scots is the lowest compared with the rest of the united kingdom the snp have presided over a low growth low-wage economy since 2007 and last year went in the coalition with the greens who do not even support the concept of economic growth can i take one more yes briefly uh stuart millen thank you steven care for taking intervention but stephen care tell me which parliament actually controls employment legislation stephen curry the economy i'm talking about stuart mcmillan the economy and the reality is you can't escape your economic record you have delivered a low growth low wage economy you've been in power for 15 years you've made a coalition with a party that doesn't even accept the concept of economic support make no bones about it economic growth is about good jobs well-paid jobs for people to be able to support themselves and their families and the scottish conservatives believe that there must be a change in the scottish government's attitude and approach moving past slogans and self-congratulatory motions to build a high growth high-wage economy to do this the scottish conservatives want to create an environment where scotland is at the forefront of innovation the forefront of enterprise skills vocational development and business opportunity by creating the right economic conditions to increase pay throughout scotland families will have more money in their pocket and keep more of their money after tax helping them with not only the cost of the school day but all the bills that families throughout scotland face to conclude deputy presiding officer i am sure the scottish conservatives will work with every party in this chamber to help families with the cost of the school day but we will approach this pragmatically knowing there is not only one solution we need a fundamental shift in how we approach this question with greater emphasis being placed on raising broad educational standards and building a high skill and high wage economy thank you mr pair i now call paul mclennan to be followed by pam duncan clancy mr mclennan thank you deputy president officer how can i follow that this is an incredibly important debate at a time where the cost-living crisis is impacting us all now there are many things that make me proud to call scott in my home our welcome approach to old scots and new our role as a progressive nation that's brimming with innovation and confident of its role in this world it's my privilege every day representing my local area clothing and our national parliament and have an opportunity to discuss issues that mean so much to those people who live in the constituency one of the most important issues i've had the chance to debate and lead changing my role as a member of the scottish parliament is ensuring that scotland is the best place in the world for children to grow up a passion mind i know is shared by across all the different benches in the chamber and of course is a priority of our scottish government it's because of the sheer passion that this very chamber unanimously passed the uncrc bill which thought to incorporate the united nations convention of rights of the child and to scott's law indeed if we're not being constitutionally constitutionally prohibited from enacting such legislation we could have had shined and fully protected the rights of our children in domestic law article 28 if the uncrc says that children young people have the right to education no matter who they are of course i am i want to get more into the the the my the speech the moment here i might take one later on of course all children in scotland are afforded this right free of charge this educational journey begins when the majority of scottish children start usually start school usually between the ages of four and five and a half it's in primary schools that our children experience majority of their formative years giving our children their first experience of formal learning which can influence the route they take through the education system and their success within it is undeniable the primary schools are very important places in a child's life secondary schools of course represent the next chapter in our children's lives a place where they meet new people have the opportunity to learn more and never have and experience new experiences and develop some teenagers and to young adults before entering the world every stage of scotland's children's lives our skills have a huge impact both positive and negative on the people our children become and strive to be so why is this important it is important today well it's important because where the majority of scottish children are given the same opportunity to attend school the school experience indeed the cost of the school day impacts scotland and children across scotland very differently yes on the face of education in scotland is free but there are often hidden next costs that can act as a barrier to participation in school as we all know school costs can put pressure on low income families and put children a young family at risk of missing out on opportunities and feeling different ashamed and stigmatized and we heard from elena speaking in that regard i can remember the same kind of feelings as well and i can remember kids at school going through school myself the same thing uniforms trips schools lunches gym kits pencils and pens dress down days can be difficult to afford for low-income families there's one in four children in scotland in poverty which works at around about five thousand children in east children the scale of poverty-related stigma that some children in our schools may experience should not be underestimated the universal credit cuts affected eight thousand families in east london alone so taking lessons from the conservatives around the support for families no thanks the poverty stigma is in combined with a very real value for our families with school-aged children cost associated within a night of school activities can play significant burden on financial resources and increase the cost of living even further and of course in recent years covered 19 has magnified already a greater risk of pure educational outcomes and well-being increased barriers to educate engagement and reduced participation in school life associated with growing up and poverty and we've had extensive debate in this chamber about the cost-living crisis we're already living through right now skyrocket energy prices are impacting families in the lowest income and our lowest in our local areas and more constitutionally i'm witnessing the number of food bank parcels given across the county doubling on a month to month basis last month alone is 104 percent year-on-year schools cannot eradicate child aid poverty loans it's for that reason the scottish government has plans for entire suicides that can prevent and mitigate the effects of poverty the doubling of the scottish child payment to 20 pounds a week and with the intensity going up to 25 pounds a week of course is one example of this that um do not have much time for certain well there's a wee bit of time in hand if you remember wishes to take the intervention thank you deputy president officer and i thank the member for taking the intervention would you also welcome the doubling of the scottish health payment from for children on bridging payments yeah i don't know that members raised that before of course they didn't i think the obviously the campaign for the minister will pick that up and and they're summing up schools and education services can do their their bet to face up to child poverty by tackling the cost of school day in partnership with other services obviously that'll impact the impact of the quality and health well-being and learning outcomes being experienced by our children and of course the extension of free school meals to all primary school children aged peoples and the recently announced one billion fund a one billion pound funding with his government to close the poverty entertainment gap over this parliamentary term will make a huge difference alongside these local solutions does the member recognise that there is a problem as has been mentioned previous in this debate with getting the people that need the support the support that support in terms of accessing it does he acknowledge that and is that something to perhaps that's across the parties we could work on despite his earlier comment about my party and our interest in the welfare of families paul mclennan universal credit point but i think the point you make and mr carrot is very relevant because i think there is still that stigma that's attached and i think we've all got those msps and working with the local authorities to break down that stigma that exists so that there is an assurance of that but we all have a role to do that i think we've learned from the communist secretary as well around the wrap around care and intentions and plans for for that we need to level up the playing field for children striving for an education system that has people equity through there's no doubt a goal for all of us regardless where we come from in the chamber the officer i'll finish with this key point and equal access to learning and opportunities at school means and equal outcomes for our children it's crucial that every child is able to make the most of the school day the scottish government is helping making this happen in scotland thank you thank you miss mclennan i now call palm duncan clancy to be followed by co-capture ms duncan clancy thank you deputy president officer just last month the scottish government published the second tackling child poverty delivery plan we on these benches recognise the action taken to date but share concerns of many organizations that whilst it did contain some good ideas most of these were little more than that ideas presented without plans or actions and despite whatever the government has done to date experts still say that and only on a good day we might just scrape through the relative poverty target and that will most definitely miss three out of four of the other child poverty targets deputy design officer that means that this time next year 120 000 children will still live in absolute poverty unable to pay for their very basic needs it's clear that the actions of this government right now are not enough warm words won't pay bills if they don't pick up pace and scale hundreds of thousands of children in scotland will be on a path to destitution and this grim reality is only the tip of the iceberg it gets worse when we look at priority families the government's failure to provide targeted support to those families also means that households where the disabled person in them single parent families and black minority ethnic families face disproportionately high levels of deprivation and the child poverty plan does little for them depressed president officer this is about children and human rights an adequate standard of living is a right under the human rights act the uncrc and the uncrpd yet tens of thousands of children are yet not able to reach to realise these these treaties also protect our rights education and i'm proud to live in a country where that education is free and thanks to previous scottish labour and liberal democrat administrations here in scotland that continues all the way to university but just because every child has a place at school doesn't mean that each child is able to enjoy that experience equally children cannot learn when they're hungry that's why our cost of living package backed money in people's pockets is why we asked the government to make the scottish telepayment 40 pounds in april next year and called on them to do more for those on low incomes and those in the squeezed middle neither tories in westminster nor the snp in scotland have done enough to mitigate the effects of rising food and fuel prices they've ignored our calls and families are buckling under the pressure for people living in poverty or even those just about managing to stay afloat the costs of going to school and fully realising right to education are for too many rights that they cannot afford third sector organizations are doing their best to step up and plug gaps providing hardship funds to those that have no one else to turn and i thank them for their incredible work this and every year organizations like aberlour have given out one and a half million pound to over six thousand people to help them cover basic necessities but the truth is it shouldn't be down to them uniform a school bag a pencil case a stationary indoor shoes and outdoor shoes lunches travel to get there these are the basics and whereas there are initiatives including some government ones in place to help with some of these like free school meals and pre-loved uniform and kit banks using them often comes with stigma felt by parents and their children they don't reach everyone or work for everyone either there are families who just miss out on school free school meals who are unable to pay the rate of a basic daily meal never mind including extra for additional treats that other children can afford with the rising cost of living and increasing food prices those who were just about managing to provide packed lunches are now struggling to do so at least to the nutritional standards that children in need and too often children are even hiding their lunchboxes or eating separately from their friends to hide what they've got or not got these initiatives make children feel different less than their peers sometimes by their peers it doesn't have to be like that reducing stigma in is crucial and it's possible many schools operate a card based system where children can either top up their card online or with cash with people on free school meals automatically receiving credit meaning they and their friends use the exact same method of payment at the front of the lunch queue no child should be handed a letter chasing them for debts or paying unable or being unable to pay for their lunch interactions with schools and payments processes should all be with via parents schools and local authorities should be reaching out to parents establishing where support is needed and offering it and hard-working teachers and school staff know how to do this they know their pupils well they are a line of defense against children going hungry collaborative working is vital to ensure that when parents are struggling the school can point them in the right direction for additional support via local authorities citizens advice bureaus and third sector organizations in a way that's not judgmental or stigmatizing but the more that school council and third sector budgets are cut the harder it is to do that and to support families furthermore schools that mandate specific uniforms and pe kits from particular suppliers should really consider changing to a more flexible and generic approach making it easier for parents to look for cost-sensitive options one school in my region demands a uniform that costs almost a hundred pound an outfit while others are more flexible meaning parents can easily pick up much cheaper alternatives and lastly school trips clubs special celebrations and events the favorites of which i'm sure many of us can recount fill many families with dread and these arise as these arise in the school calendar for some they're simply unthinkable budget restraints facing school means that more and more children are having to pay to attend or cover supplies at extracurricular clubs families see their children missing out as they watch others participate in these experience with no feasible ways of doing so themselves trips to parks museums libraries and leisure facilities are of course a good alternative but that is only possible while these places are open and accessible and i know only too well in my own region of glasgow the diminishing council budgets mean that these places are the first to be cut and the options available are not there for schools places like the people's palace are a prime example and i hope that glasgow city council will pledge to ensure that it is never again forced to close its doors deputy president officer the cost of the school day is too often a hidden cost but the effects of it are not not properly considering it when we celebrate the right to freedom of education leaves children to face stigma and prejudice made to feel different just as children cannot learn when they're hungry they cannot learn to their full potential when they feel judged or stigmatised we don't need miracles to change this we need innovation proper funding for councils money in people's pockets and real action to tackle child poverty and the cost of living crisis thank you thank you ms duncan clancy i now call cook up stewart to be followed by ross crew at miss church thank you presiding officer i'm delighted to speak in this debate reflecting on the many vital actions that are being taken by the scottish government to reduce the cost of the school day for children from low-income families and i do welcome the scottish government's recognition that this state of affairs is totally unacceptable the motion does demonstrate its commitment to ensuring that children can participate fully in all aspects of school life without additional financial costs education should of course be free for all children as the teacher of 30 years experience in the classroom i've seen the impact on the left out child of not being able to go to the christmas fair and being left in the classroom because they don't have a ticket not having the 30 pence to adopt the soft toy the thoughtless uh the thought fullness of teachers giving their own money to children to enable them to buy the popcorn or guess how many sweets there are in a jar in fact teachers in collaboration with parent councils have long been aware of the need to ensure that no child is excluded and i'm sure we all remember participating in sponsored walks and asking friends and family to contribute perhaps some of us would have provided more benefit by taking part in sponsored silences not wanting to come across as a total mistrunch bull i do accept and believe that these activities are a vital component of the school day and calendar they contribute to the school and wider community in so many fun ways and of course all children should participate fully but without experiencing the stigma of not having the financial resource the child poverty action groups cost of the school day campaign focuses on raising awareness of disproportionate and hidden costs from dress down days to dress up days charity support days and other fundraising events it also highlights the cost of basic necessities such as stationery uniform food and transport it provides the wealth of creative ways to school to uh for a school to identify and tackle these costs and i myself participated in the pilot training program in glasgow and not only did it challenge my own assumptions but also led to the school wide re-evaluation of the school calendar events in order to cut out any additional expenses placed on children and families the scottish government has quite rightly committed substantial funds to address this cost of the school day including uniform meals transport the school uniform grant currently stands 120 pounds per eligible primary child and 150 per eligible secondary young person 11.8 million of additional funding has been provided to local authorities to enable this all children from p1 to p5 and elibable children in piece six and seven have been in receipt of three school lunches since january and i welcome that provision will be extended to all children in primary and special schools during the course of this parliament it should be noted the policy of providing universal free school meals saves all families an average of 400 pounds per child per year child poverty levels in scotland are six percentage points below the uk average standing at 24 compared to 30 in england 31 in wales and of course matching northern ireland at the 24 child poverty in scotland is projected to fall to its lowest level in nearly 30 years as the result of the actions taken by the scottish government to date and commitments in the second tackling child poverty delivery plan other uh i'll just crack i'm nearly done other examples of game changing scottish government action on child poverty include doubling the child payment to 20 pounds increasing it to 25 extending it to all children in low income families up to the age of 16 by the end of this year and the child poverty action group has reported that the cost of bringing up a child in scotland will be reduced by 31 or nearly 24 000 pounds a year once the scottish child payment is doubled and the expansion of free school meals provision is fully delivered however these actions are being taken in the face of uk tory government which seems to be determined to increase inequality instead of reducing it and of course the scottish government is trying to deal with this issue with one hand tied behind its back inequality is the blight on scotland and actually it's a blight on the whole of the uk the difference here is that in scotland we have a government that understands this and takes action to address it i therefore welcome this motion and even miss honey i think would defer to the words of kofi annan there is no duty more important than ensuring that their rights are respected that their welfare is protected that their lives are free from fear and want and that they can grow up in peace thank you presiding officer thank you mr stewart i now call ross greer to be followed by bob doris mr greer thank you presiding officer too often we talk about education as the root out of poverty and the great level or between people of different backgrounds it clearly has a huge role to play but those kind of statements are often made without any acknowledgment of the wider structural inequalities in society which means even the most academically gifted high achieving young person from a disadvantaged background is likely to be disadvantaged for the rest of their life compared to their peers from far more affluent backgrounds even if they achieved far less in terms of qualifications at school this is the line of argument which leads us to treating teachers and school support staff as something between a social worker and a miracle worker expected to cure all the societal injustices which too many children and young people enter the classroom each morning already suffering as a result of we can't eradicate poverty through our schools whatever policies we adopt and however much money we spend there and it would be desperately unfair to already overwhelm school staff not to mention children and their families if we were to try to do so but schools do have a really important role in a wider holistic plan to tackle and eliminate child poverty at the very least the policies and support mechanisms should be in place to stop them from actually making inequality worse this is something the eis have produced excellent resources on in recent years and i'd strongly recommend their poverty proofing skills packs to every school and council in the country this objective of poverty proofing our schools and reducing the cost of the school day is at the heart of the scottish government's agenda and in particular the butte house agreement reached last year by the greens and the snp capping the cost of school uniforms via statutory guidance for example is a policy i was proud to take from the scottish greens manifesto into the programme for government across far too many schools and council areas there are unnecessarily prescriptive uniform requirements and exclusive agreements with certain suppliers which only serve to drive up the cost of uniforms putting greater burden on low income and on larger families permits education committee took extensive evidence on this in the last session with examples of mandatory blazers with unnecessary breeding needlessly specific pe uniforms and other policies which were and still are harming some of the most vulnerable families in those school communities yes martin whitfield i'm very grateful deputy presiding officer and i'm very grateful to the member um giving way would you also confirm that that should also extend to the protective pe sports equipment that exists without which it would be dangerous for children to participate in some sport and often gets missed out in this discussion ross gray i think that's a really important point i have to say i wasn't the sporty one in my family but i know that my brother would certainly strongly agree with those sentiments and my parents with the cost of providing for my brother's enthusiasm for every sport under the sun it would certainly agree with that and as we get to the point of scoping out that statutory guidance i think that is a really important point to make increasing the school clothing grant is of course a welcome step in this area particularly now in the context of rising inflation but in and of itself it could never be the solution without creating statutory guidance to cap the cost of school uniforms in the first place the uniform grant would amount to an ever increasing subsidy to the companies producing these unnecessarily expensive uniforms so i'm looking forward to the production of this guidance and the opportunities that provide us to tackle many other inequalities that the cabinet secretary mentioned for example around the financial impact on young women and girls of needlessly gendered uniform policies the expansion of free school meals is another cornerstone policy in this agenda universal free meals in primary school was first agreed as part of the last budget deal between the greens and the snp in the previous session of parliament and despite the challenges of the pandemic its rollout does continue every child in primary one through five has access to free meal at school with primary six and seven following as soon as possible i understand completely the calls for this rollout to be sped up that was the scottish government's original plan but causes are quite fairly said they needed more time and money to make the necessary changes to school kitchens and other facilities to meet an increased level of demand that funding has been provided this year there's 35 million pounds in capital funds so i hope the expansion to all primary year groups can now take place as quickly as possible yes paulo keen often i thank raspberry for taking intervention just except however in larger authorities where there is an expanding school population such as ethereum signings than barnster there will be a requirement for further capital funding to ensure that school lunch times can actually be provided within the time scales i'm thinking in particular men's primary in newton men's for example where there are upwards of 1500 pupils to be fed over at lunchtime ross grave i'm grateful for the member for that intervention i agree absolutely they need the nature local authorities not exactly the same and particularly in local authorities with growing populations like the two that the member and i both represent have just been mentioned there is a need for continued funding to make sure that this is available one other area which has made it from the scottish greens manifesto into the government's program is the expansion of family income maximization services attached to schools because for all the other important initiatives through which we support low-income families the single most effective thing which can be done to help which gives families the most dignity and respect is to increase their income the healthier welfare children program run by nhs greater glasgow and clyde is an excellent example this it's been running since october 2010 and as of august 2020 the financial gain for families was estimated at 36.5 million pounds from 27 000 referrals that's an average of 1350 pounds going to families who are entitled to it but for whatever reason we're not already accessing it i know that similar schemes have seen similar levels of success in other areas the butte house agreement will see funding for family income maximization services increased by 10 million pounds over this session that won't all take place through schools but they play a critical role because schools are often not always but often the only route through which some families have a trusting relationship with the state despite the wide range of measures listed in this motion and the others the government's undertaking is entirely right for those such as the child poverty action group and the scottish youth parliament to push for this work to go further and faster and i can see that point made in labour's amendment this afternoon that's exactly what the government's constantly asking of itself just look at the new child poverty delivery plan which commits to further increase in the scottish child payment to 25 pounds and action to mitigate the uk government's cruel benefit gap another green manifesto commitment which i'm proud to see implemented eradicating child poverty is a mission which unites all of us in this department and with the caveats i mentioned earlier schools have a critical role to play in that effort the government's agenda is ambitious but i'm glad to see a collective desire for us to go further and i look forward to discussions about how exactly we do that in the months ahead thank you thank you mr greer and before i call the next speaker could i remind all those members who are hoping to speak in the debate to ensure that their cards are in and that the request to speak buttons are pressed and i now call bob doris to be followed by pam gozo mr doris thank you very much presenting officer and i'm pleased to speak in this debate regarding reducing the cost of school day for low-income families there's a swede of direct interventions that have been made by this snp government to help low-income families the newly doubled scotty shell payment for instance together with three best start grant payments those being of course the pregnancy and baby payment early learning payment and school age payment together with best start foods that is worth over ten thousand pounds to lincoln families by the time the first failed term six could also point out today officer that we saw today that if you qualify for the scottish trail payment the scholarship will now automate payments for early learning payments and schoolage payments and that's a significant progress also it is worth noting that the difference of more than 8 200 pounds for every eligible child born in scotland compared to similar ministers in england and wales that's a real difference and of course we want and must do more in scotland and this debate has been outlining some of the reasons scottish government intends to to do that and we're also hearing some other suggestions and that's right also however i have a very cynical reason for comparing the scottish government's priorities for low-income families to those of the uk government in particular and it's not to make a party political point i think it's self-evident presiding officer scotland's ambitions plans priorities and resourcing decisions go far beyond anything the uk government's doing indeed there's much cross-party support for snp plans and i think the nature of the labour amendment says yes that we'll see more a little bit about that later the debate has moved on in scotland from questioning universal free school meals to questioning universal free prescriptions and requesting free access to universal higher education labour was described that as a something for nothing society the debate has now moved on dramatically and i welcome labour coming on board with the snp in relation to that when compared to the devil's digitally harmful and retrograde steps by the uk government's decisions to withdraw 20 pounds universal credit uplift a decision which has hammered some of our most vulnerable and struggling households it's clear that together we have set together across party we have set different more progressive path forward for scotland i want to compare the decision taken here in scotland with westminster because i want to urge westminster to take a similar approach not only would that benefit english families in england with initiatives i suggest to the tune of additional eight thousand three hundred pounds for every child by the time they turn six but because of the way scotland is financed via barnet consequentials it would release another 225 million pounds of scotland's own money to reinvest in these initiatives and do further to tackle child poverty and the cost of the school day that's by dent of the way scotland is financed we need england to adopt these policies also so scotland can go further i am proud of the priorities set and achievements secured by the scottish government on a cross-party basis i have to see a planning officer and much of these have been targeted at those in the lowest incomes however i want to reflect on the scottish government's policy in relation to the important universal approach an increasingly universal approach with the provision of universal free school meals in 2015 the scottish government delivered universal free school meals for p1 to p3 by january this year it is extended right up to the end of p5 peoples and before then this parliamentary session will be all children and primary scholarship put on record icing the natural ending place universal free school meals irrespective of skill setting for children quite frankly but that'll go beyond this parliament i suspect of course there's also addition to the targeted approach of physical meals for other children out with the groups who will qualify universally the scale of the universal provision should not be underestimated 274 000 children between p1 and p5 are automatically registered to qualify for free school meals if they take up the offer of course mr care which i accept is an issue we should look at that that is an investment over 95 million pounds for the scottish government to provide universal free school meals but it's also more than that it's about tackling stigma yes there's the cost of the school day but there's the cost of stigma within the school day and the impact that has that has on education it's about the right to a school meal not because you're poor but because you have the right as a young person to have a free nutritious school meal in the first place a dignified approach and a key child welfare approach i rarely make personal contributions in this chamber examine a privileged position including with my income but i remember very well my experience in 1980s uh with my with my experience of free school meals being at the end of the queue if you lost your dinner ticket i also remember selling my dinner ticket so i knew what it was like to have cash in my pocket for the first time ever the scottish child payment dramatically impacts on that and the quality of life for young people living in poverty but i hate mentioning these things because i am now in a privileged position presiding officer quite frankly the labour amendment gives as a nod to universality regarding universally available summer clubs much good work is going on in this area already for the last five years in glasgow kings will run by the snp regarding its holiday hunger programming and maryland springboard the constituents that i represent beside the officer this summer coming in corder in royston in somerset in lamb hill in rockhill and milton in weinford in mary hill and i will continue presenting officer in springbone in portal park and park house and in wester common are all individual sites where there will be summer clubs running with free access to food for all who want to come along and take part in the activities there run by the third sector and it will be huge memories closer do i have time do the members bring his remarks too closely okay well in that case i i apologize to pam ducking gladst in closing i will say that i think there's more consensus in this debate than we may realize and the police to depart on as we work together commonly and jointly to reduce the cost of school day for all the young people that we represent thank you mr torres and i now call crime goes on to be followed by evelyn tweet miss school thank you presiding officer i'm grateful to be contributing this important debate on behalf of the scottish conservatives and express my support for the amendment made by my colleague oliver mundell we often come into this chamber and judge the performance of our education system based on attainment but rarely do we get a chance to discuss the factors which make attainment possible and for the hours spent in school to be worthwhile and effective pupils only concern should be learning and i find it rather distressing hearing accounts of children from low income families who have left and felt embarrassed stressed ashamed or outcast during their time at school due to their financial circumstances and i fear clear hockey thank you very much to pam gossel for taking intervention and i hear what she's saying about she feels distressed about hearing about children whose lives are impacted by poverty will she join me in condemning her tory counterparts at westminster who have imposed that poverty on many of the children and families in scotland i thank the member for your intervention however i think it was said earlier on the snp scottish government need to stop hiding behind the uk government i mean we're talking about failures here that were mentioned earlier on it's not just the ferry fiasco that you threw money away on we're talking about the malicious prosecution of rangers we're talking about the hospitals we are talking about money here that could be spent excuse me i'm speaking money that could be spent today on issues that were so important to our children miss coastal hold on a second could the front benches please stop having a slanging match while miss gossel's trying to speak must go thank you presiding officer and i fear that recently announced changes to funding for the scottish attainment challenge will result in further examples of this in my region the changes to the attainment gap funding model will see pupil equity funds cut by around 850 000 per year by 2025 for western bartonshire a council with the fourth highest level of child poverty in the country in fact an analysis by audit scotland published in 2021 shows that when you exclude attainment scotland funds spending on education and nearly all attainment challenge areas fell from 2013 to 2019.
this money can be crucial in helping cover the cost of the school day for people from disadvantaged backgrounds so we continue to disagree with the reduction in key funding for attainment challenge areas but i will say i do welcome the increase in school clothing grants for primary and secondary school pupils and the full best start bright futures plan has some commendable ideas however you can understand my cautious optimism in relation to some measures such as promises from the scottish government to provide digital devices for every school child by 2026 we need the scottish government to make good on its promises in the immediate term not in four years i would rather um finish my speech thank you sorry i am actually surprised by the appearance of this pledge and the government's motion today as though the rollout of digital devices so far has been something to be applauded the cabinet secretary earlier on soca spoke about devices being delivered however in my region over 80 percent of the pupils from western barnshare are still waiting for the digital devices and over 90 percent and east and bartonshire are also waiting with the initial rollout stemming from the pandemic and the very slow delivery of devices having little to no impact on digital poverty it is now imperative that pupils who have missed out are able to catch up i would therefore urge the scottish government to back our national tutoring scheme something we have championed for over a year and which could make a real difference to young people's education as for the removal of music tuition fees some councils were giving music lessons for free however these charges had been increasing in more local authorities over the last 10 years because of the cuts to the core council funding so although we welcome the removal of charges we wish it had not been necessitated by the legacy of snp cuts to the core local government funding the scottish conservatives welcome commitments to ensuring low-income families do not incur cost for curriculum-related trips and we want to take it a step further and urge everyone across this chamber to back my colleague les smith as she takes forward her members bill to make it a statutory requirement for local authorities to offer 12 to 16 years old at least one week of residential outdoor education which was actually highlighted by the member cucab stewart on trips outside of school in conclusion presiding officer reducing the attainment gap is a key priority for the scottish conservatives we believe that children from all backgrounds should have equal footing when it comes to attainment and we can do this by firstly investing one billion entertainment gap ensuring it is allocated effectively secondly speeding up the rollout of the digital devices and introducing a national tutoring scheme to help pupils catch up and last but not least presiding officer maximizing efforts to ensure that people's only concerns when they are at school as learning thank you miss grizzle i now call on evelyn tweed to be followed by marie mcnair around six minutes mr tweet thank you deputy presiding officer firstly for the record i am a serving counsellor at sterling council i grew up a child of a single mom on a poor council estate in air so i have some understanding of poverty and the challenges facing families today my mum worked part-time in and to give me a real school uniform every year she had to purchase it and credit at an exorbitant interest rate we relied heavily on school meals so that i got at least one decent school meal a day all through my school years clothes and toys were in short supply for example i didn't own my own bicycle until i could afford to buy one aged 22 and of course at school i often felt excluded as others enjoyed trips or had the latest fashions and we've heard much about stigma today i recall the benefits system at the time certainly was not generous and child benefit was something we came to rely on and i'll never forget the look on my mum's face when i managed to lose the payment one day on the way back from the post office even after all these years that look still haunts me so i have had first-hand experience of the hard choices and challenges that face families living on the breadline and as a result i am determined that all children should have a good start in life it is part of the reason that i get into politics if you put yourself in the shoes of a low income family it's not hard to see why tackling child poverty as a number one priority for the snp and our government children from poor households don't just suffer from a lack of material things or decent food they get bullied at school for having less this then impacts on their enjoyment of school and and and on their ability to succeed there and leaving school without making the most of opportunities is likely to result in a vicious poverty cycle a child's experiences of school and their family's income are strongly linked a 2007 joseph roundtree foundation study found that school children from poorer families had narrower and less rich experiences with children in disadvantaged schools having less access to music art and out of school activities alarmingly this study also highlighted that poorer children accepted that they were not going to get the same quality of schooling all the same outcomes as better off children every child should have the same opportunities and i know this government is committed to making a fairer society for all the child poverty bill passed unanimously in 2017 set out the targets to reduce the number of children experiencing the effects of poverty by 2030 since then the snp and the scottish government have been working with charities think tanks and education community to break down the financial barriers that face a quarter of our children the cost of a school day for low-income children is now mitigated by measures such as free breakfast clubs free school meals and uniform allowance plus supporting more parents with free child care so that they can go to work and earn more for their families it is good to see the shared priorities of local and national government make an impact in my constituency stalin council has introduced breakfast clubs clothing grants and other measures to help families the scottish government has also brought forward progressive policies like increasing the scottish child payment which 360 children across stillling have benefited from it is our raison d'etre to help struggling families think tanks and anti-poverty campaigners are generally an agreement that scottish government's child poverty strategy could make a huge difference in maximizing household resources and improving children's well-being and life chances however though our progress and commitment has been good a question remains how do we ensure this progress is not undone by the growing cost of living crisis unhelped by a woefully ignorant uk tory government and it's quite shameful that the tories ruthlessly cut the 20 pounds universal credit uplift at a time when families were at their lowest point the scottish government's welfare reform impact on families with children reports earlier this year estimated that 70 000 people in scotland including 30 000 children would be lifted out of poverty by 2024 if uk government welfare welfare reforms introduced since 2015 were reversed due to the number of mitigation policies in scotland which put people before profit child poverty here is notably lower at 24 compared to 30 in england this includes a focus on the availability of social housing and local government schemes such as the scottish welfare fund and council tax reduction which help prevent destitution however i am concerned that the pandemic and ongoing costs of living crises will make our targets difficult to meet unless additional support is provided by westminster or ultimately we achieve independence to control our own financial levels so remember i'm just about to finish our promises provide hope and implementing these promises is key i'm proud to say that scotland is a much better place for low-income children now than when i was a youngster thanks to the snp when we invest in our children's welfare we invest in the welfare of all and i welcome this motion thank you thank you and i call on marie mcnair to be followed by paul kane for around six minutes please mr thank you resign officer i'm pleased to speak in this debate about what can be done to assist with the cost of the school day especially a time when families across scotland are struggling with the current cost of living crisis we know that this cost of living crisis has been the biggest fall in living standards since records began that is why it's important that we take a planned approach we must ensure that everything feasible is done to reduce the costs facing families from the cost of the school day the approach set out by the scottish government is welcome and it will be of great assistance to many families across scotland and is also in tune with our national mission to eradicate child poverty i welcome the investment that is removing barriers to education including the removal of the core curriculum costs for all primary and secondary pupils this will ensure that families do not have to meet the cost of resources and materials for practical lessons the change in mindset that the cost of school day approach is bringing about will continue to see financial barriers to education removed to be successful it must listen and act on the issues that parents have identified it also needs to be the mindset within our schools with head teachers and staff being aware of potential unintended implications of money being sought to facilitate school activities and events i've seen the effectiveness of this type of approach firsthand in my role as a counsellor on western barnum council and i'll draw members attention to my legal register of interest in western barnard every head teacher has undertaken training on the impacts of poverty and adversity on children and families all schools have undertaken training on mitigating against the cost of the school day all schools are committed to working with their parents and partners to address the challenges of poverty and to reduce buyers to inclusion as a result of poverty a multi-agency group of staff have worked together to produce a cost of school day resource which reflects surveys of parents and their views this resource provides support and guidance to establishments and highlights barriers and ways to overcome these a short life working group is leading authority-wide developments in addressing inequality and supporting establishments in addressing this with their school communities i am clear that our schools are committed to reducing financial and other barriers to education and the step change made by this approach should not be underestimated parents are being listened to and their concerns have secured necessary change we must match this step change by continuing to roll out policy that puts money in the pockets of families and gives financial support they need that was especially important during the pandemic and now during this course of living crises that is why in western bartons where we took the decision to double our payment of the school clothing grant to 300 pounds and that is why the scottish government has doubled the scottish town payment among increase up to 25 pounds and that is why we've upgraded scottish benefits by six percent at a time with the westminster government upgrade benefits by only half this amount and presiding officer i take this for the opportunity to call on them to do the right thing and follow our approach to upgrading i also welcome our decision to to mitigate yep pamdun can glancy sir and thank you to the member for taking that intervention in line with such an approach to operating will you will and the member also support a doubling of the carers allowing supplements so that that too can be upgraded thank you for that certainly we'll look at that um continuing on i also welcome a decision to mitigate the benefit cap this means my voicemail policy deliberately deprives families of children of the basic subsistence levels within the uk social security system our commitment to free school meals is also massively important in reducing the cost of school while providing nutritional meals to our young people important too is continuation of the education maintenance allowance when it was scrapped in other parts of the uk and also one of our best start grants is paid when a child starts school in recognition that this is a time that puts more financial pressure on families for children it's no surprise then that the child poverty action group point out in the report the cost of the child in scotland that the combined value of scottish government policies and lower child care costs will reduce the net cost of bringing up a child by up to 31 percent that's nearly 24 000 for lower income families so there is a wide financial package available to reduce the cost of the school day and support families in a wider setting but it's not enough presiding officer we must maximize take-up of this approach through access to advice and innovative approaches that minimise bureaucracy and as a child poverty action group point out this support is one of the positive things achieved from the cost of school day approach i welcome the continuation continued commitment to this from the scottish government and local actions across clay bank and mulgai in conclusion president officer i hold hardly welcome the scottish government support for a cost of the school day approach i paid tribute to all schools across my constituency our teachers all staff and our schools our senior education officers for the commitment and compassion for the determination to ensure that unnecessary costs are removed from the school curriculum and the financial barriers are removed so that access to education is not shaped by your ability to pay thank you thank you very much mr mcnair and i call him paula kane to be followed by jim fairly for around six minutes mr o'keefe thank you jfd presiding officer and following the the two previous speakers i will also declare an interest perhaps the last time in this chamber as a servant counsellor in eastern council and i am pleased to be able to contribute to this debate this afternoon i want to begin by praising the excellent work of our schools and the many dedicated staff who work in them day in and day out because skills are so much more than just places of learning i'm sure we can all agree that in our own communities we see schools at the very centre of supporting children and young people and our families to grow and thrive in safe and supported environments and i'm sure we've all had experience of that wider role that schools can play in bringing communities together and meeting people where they are in order to work as hard as possible with them to respond to their needs and that means all children and all families and a relentless focus on breaking down the barriers that exist to achieving the full potential of every learner in preparing for today's debate uh i've been thinking about the genuine transformative power that experiences in and around school life can have on a young person my mum taught in a primary school for 40 years and still speaks about so many of the young people that she taught and supported to experience the world both inside and out with the classroom the first time a child has the opportunity to learn a musical instrument and perform for their classmates when a child learns to swim and takes to the deep end on their own for the very first time or taking a skill trip away from home for the first time to iona or an outward bound and watching children wonder in history or nature it may seem simple but there is power in these things and as cpag have pointed out in their work on in-school poverty children are missing out on having fun i think it's more fundamental than that children are often missing out on being themselves and learning about themselves and that's why i commend the work done by cpag on supporting schools to think about how to make these experiences as accessible and cost neutral as possible something that teachers like my mum and many many others have been doing for many years but we know that with diminishing financial resources it becomes harder and harder and we know that it often falls to staff parent councils charities churches and others to help plug the gap presiding officer we also know that the cost of the fundamentals of the school day such as uniform costs pe kits food equipment and digital access all continue to rise and that's why it's right that the government has worked with kosla on increasing the school clothing grant and the expanded provision of free school meals but it's clear that councils have also gone above and beyond in extremely difficult circumstances whether it's labour-led north lanarkshire combating holiday hunger with club 365s and providing the first ever clothing grant for nursery children and i'm sure bob doris just forgot to mention or didn't get to mention north lanarkshire and i wouldn't mention all of the communities in our clinics that were benefiting from that holiday hunger program i'll i'll let other other colleagues perhaps do that certainly give way bob doris i'm sure the member will want to concur that there's great work across all local authorities to address these issues much of the the stuff and the labour amendment is taking place across scotland and snp glasgow and i understand from what you see in north america also police thank the point i'm making is that councils have gone above and beyond to help deliver much of this agenda as well and labour led north earth in my own region have invested in a scheme directed at tackling the cost of the school day with half a million pounds already invested to overcome what are the key financial barriers to participating at school uh for children from low income houses and that's looking at delivering equal access to food clothing and digital resources in order to poverty proof school day and i know we've heard from other colleagues about where that's happening in other parts of the country as well but these councils are struggling to deliver this in the face of years of cuts from this government the government motion speaks about the removal of co-curriculum charges and a myriad of initiatives but much of this is simply replacing funding already stripped from local government education budgets as i think we have heard already many of these certainly does the member believe that basically a slow roll out of these devices to um the pupils in scotland it has little or no impact on digital poverty and with it obviously interest in the area that i'm in west and eastern barnshar with over 80 90 still to be delivered does the member believe that the snp scottish government is failing the pupils of scotland well i thank my regional colleague for intervention i mean i think there is clearly concern about the the pace of um these devices being rolled out it was fundamentally important last year uh during the lockdown periods that young people had access to digital devices in order to ensure that they could learn from home and i know from my own experience in the council in east central and that the role of money from government has been slow and has been patched i think we would all want to see progress in that and i do hope that the minister will be able to say something in her concluding remarks about what progress they intend to make in order to ensure that this is delivered as reality it's all very well to say a device for every child but we need to know when that is going to happen because as i've already said many of these are headlines not yet delivered time still slipping and we know about things like free lunches but breakfast clubs and many local authorities were cut years ago and local authorities have not been given appropriate capital funding as i referenced earlier to deliver increased dining space we talk about free instrumental tuition but many bands and orchestras have already folded and work to reach the poorest children with music tuition has stopped and as we've just heard a digital device for every child but hundreds still waiting and also council family learning services and outreach has been decimated so it is clear that we need to look at the fundamentals in order to tackle poverty in our schools and in our communities we need childcare that supports people to access learning and the labor market with councils and partner providers fully funded to deliver with the genuine flexibility that was promised and its requirements and we wrap around healthcare not just in those early years but also before and after school where we know that childcare can be exorbitant and given the context of covert 19 we need a recovery that works for everyone and that means universal availability of holiday clubs and extracurricular activities to help all of our children and young people bounce back particularly in terms of their mental health and well-being and including deputy presiding officer all evidence shows that addressing issues of poverty during childhood and in school vastly increases the life chances of those raised in low-income household poverty touches all areas of life and we on these benches believe fighting to end poverty should be the key priority of everything we do in this parliament and that begins with our youngest citizens thank you thank you mr akane i now call on jim feli who'll be the final speaker in the open debate and just remind all members who've participated in the debate that they need to be here for the start of the closing speeches for around six minutes mr philly thank you president officer i remember when i went to school getting free school dinners and i really didn't think anything of it and why would you until someone of course pointed out to me that that meant i must be poor despite the fact that my dad worked two jobs while a student and my mom was working as well and that's where stigma kicks in and that stigma makes you feel like you're a charity case and that there are things that others can access that are just simply not for you and i take bob doris's point that talking about personal things while we're in this team are very well paid but i think it's important that we do talk about them because we need to make sure that people understand we're talking from some place that we actually understand ourselves it doesn't just make you feel bad it can lead to problems when you're learning children develop an attitude of questioning what their worth is in the educational system and it can affect excuse me and that can affect their ambition their attainment narrows and their sense of options and opportunities that are open to them that feeling of that's only for other folk becomes the automatic thought another rare sharp memory that i've got from my school days that is relevant today's debate is a primary seven um my head master came in tight primer seven and coming into class tell us that they were arranging a trip a four-day trip to york which sounded brilliant but it costed 40 pounds it cost 40 pounds i didn't even tell my parents about it and when they found out they were absolutely gutted that i should be so aware of family financial constraints that i had put it out in my head straight away and my dad might actually be furious that i'm raising it today but we've got to talk about this stuff i should add they found the 40 pound and i had a fantastic trip to york and thoroughly enjoyed it but we've got to have we have to recognize and tackle the impact that poverty and the stigma of poverty can have on a child's education and as importantly a child's self-worth and belief in themselves we need to make sure that education isn't something that you buy an education isn't just just about academics of education it's about that whole school experience school should enrich your children and not make them feel poorer that school is a place where they feel they belong not somewhere they're made to feel different or aren't not good enough because they don't have enough money and why is it that and that's why the steps that this scottish government has taken and which are recognized in today's motion are so important getting a child kitted getting kitted out for school can be a daunting prospect but helpful measures like increasing the school clothing grant and producing guidance to reduce school uniform costs placed on families that's helping and my days we all went during the summer holidays to pick berries and that's how we paid for our uniforms but you can't get properly educated if you're hungry that phrase that billy key would have recognized today a hungers and wayne has near lugs is where breakfast clubs and free school meals nutritious school meals play such a key role and universal universal provision removes the stigma that attaches to them i don't want families on fixed incomes and tight budgets to experience that sinking feeling when they open their child's school bag and find a letter about the school trip or the music lesson that they will have to find money to pay for or a way to let their child down without making them feel bad i don't want parents to think of an excuse to get their child out of doing cooking classes for example because they can't pay for the contributions to the ingredients the scottish government's commitment to removing core curriculum charges ensuring low-income families don't face those costs for curriculum-related trips and abolishing fees for instrumental music tuition are really important in that regard and there are other steps being taken not mentioned in this motion that will help ease the cost of the school day for folk as well after school clubs or sports training sessions that means your child will miss the free school bus going home would have to come out of your normal budget that's no longer the case because under this snp government children get to travel free on buses now the introduction yes i will martin whitfield i'm very grateful deputy presiding officer i'm very grateful to the member to give way does he not also however share my concern that the travel costs for trips during the day are excessive and indeed place huge financial burden on schools which isn't being alleviated by the free bus pass jim philly i would absolutely concur that any extra cost put in a family and this cost of living crisis is absolutely terrible but as ross grier pointed out the school education system can't sort out the problems of poverty the introduction and recent doubling our child payment is incredibly helpful boost to low-income families and just today the plans have been announced to automatically pay the best start grant early learning and school age payments to parents and carers who already receive scottish child payment when their children become eligible automatic payments are important less paperwork less asking for help and less of that sense that you're holding out the begging ball the change will be reduced later this year when the child payment is extended to under 16s and increased to 25 pounds per child per week the snp government may have one arm tie when it's back with the tory government in westminster but it is nevertheless winning a tug of war benefit cuts in bedroom taxes may threaten to make life harder for scottish families but we are fortunate having a scottish government shielding ameliorating and mitigating the worst of the tory attacks on the poor over 1.4 billion pounds and medicaid some of the uk tory government's welfare benefit cuts as just part of the cost of the union to scotland and the positive states taken by the scottish government which i have highlighted and some which are listed in the motion are a pointer to the fairer better scotland we could build with full access to our own resources and the proper powers of a normal nation thank you [Applause] thank you very much mr fellow when i draw to the closing speeches i note that coca-cola isn't present in the chamber would expect an explanation for that and i call martin whitfield for around seven minutes please very grateful deputy presiding officer it is a great pleasure to close this debate on behalf of scottish labour child poverty those ongoing costs of living crisis it goes against everything that scottish labor stands for our young people can't reach their full potential unless they're supported properly during their early and school years to get the education the care the skills that they need to thrive and indeed it was a great pleasure in this debate for so much of it to be listened to by school party that joined us and i hope they took from this what is a consensus across this parliament that we need to fight child poverty we need to fight poverty in scotland and we do need to make this the best place for a young person to grow up in i welcomed the um initial uh statement from shillian somerville and i was grateful for the comments with regard to data because one of the challenges is that data is a problem the sharing of data between local authorities the scottish social security indeed the scottish government and others if we want to make sure that the highest level of take-up of benefits and other resources available to our families occurs in scotland we need to find a way through the maze that is gdpr not just across scotland but also between the scottish government and indeed the westminster government and i hope the minister has an opportunity to reaffirm the commitment to find a way through that gap because if we are to do better for our families it is in these small steps that we will see the greatest benefits so many speakers this afternoon have spoken about free school meals and indeed when we look at the statistics of availability for free school meals it's interesting that the last um cumulative statistics date from 2019 and were published in 2020 when at that stage 38 of pupils in scotland were entitled to free school meals but of that only 78.1 percent took it up 78.1 over 20 of young people entitled to free school meals couldn't take it up i welcome the move away from free school meals as being an assessment of financial stability however i'm extremely concerned that in moving away from such a relatively simple statistic to collect we will lose families in this and there are people who will be in a hidden poverty that they can't escape from and that so much of the potential that's been talked about this afternoon goes amiss for those individuals because that in itself would be tragic looking at some of the other statements can i again and i found myself doing this already before uh in this session um saying enormous thank you to eleanor whittam for her ability to share her experience of growing up and for her to be able to articulate what it feels like to grow up in a house which is different from perhaps some of her friends and i found it very powerful her statement that children are aware of children who are in poverty and the children take decisions that they feel they ought to for their parents about what they should and shouldn't share with them and i think of all and there have been many contributions of personal experiences this afternoon i think that moment to think that a young person chooses not to share something with their family because of their perception of where their family is compared to others the truly tragic flag that sits in scotland and i think across this chamber we must agree to try and bring an end to that stigma and bringing an end to that stigma comes in many many ways it is not as simple as just improving the school situation indeed as ross greer rightly said the schools are not the answer to this poverty the answer lies in a myriad of other decisions taken away and i hope that ross would agree with me that similarly the schools cannot be held responsibility that cannot be held responsible if those poverty targets three out of four which we look like we're going to miss should try to be held responsible for that it is broader and it rests in this chamber and on this government and i thank ross again for um allowing the intervention regarding specialist sports gear and i raise it not because of my um brilliant athletic attributes at school but indeed because of the challenges that i've had speaking to young children who want to play rugby where i grow up and the challenge of even buying specialist boots the helmet to wear in scrums and other protection that is required and again i would look to the minister in summing up to be able to say whether or not this is going to be part of the consideration um going forward so it has been an interesting debate it's been a fascinating debate i would like to have heard people talk about young people having a voice in this debate if i can mention one thing that has been absent from all of the speeches it is actually perhaps listening to liaising with and talking to our young people about the experiences that perhaps are very hard to articulate at their stage but to ask high school pupils what it was like to be in primary school when you had to wear a different band if you had a free school meal or your order was taken differently and for those who couldn't make their p7 residential trip because their family couldn't afford it and i think to come back to what has been consistent throughout this is a desire across this chamber for an education system that will facilitate our young people to have better adult life and break as has been described that cycle of poverty our young people should expect exactly what every other young person wants from the desire to be a professional footballer an astronaut a nurse a doctor whatever they want to be that they're asked about in those p1 classes what can you do to meet a policeman and want to be a policeman possibly even want to be a teacher they should be empowered to do that because that is the dreams that they have and nothing in scotland to take those dreams away from them and every child irrespective of the school they go to irrespective of the community they come from should demand from this government and from this chamber that they have their right their right to see through their dream there's been a lot positive said this afternoon but i now turn to the government and i would ask them we have heard so much please please ensure that you deliver on this that you set out the measurements that we can say success is being achieved let's not look next year where three out of four of our poverty targets aren't being reached because they can't there is cross-party agreement to this and you will have it provided you can show that success is on the way thank you presiding officer thank you and i'll call on megan gallagher up to eight minutes please thank you presiding officer and i welcome the opportunity to close this debate on behalf of the scottish conservatives the cost of a school day per child for low income families can be a tough financial burden to bear as we have heard throughout today's contributions this has only been exacerbated by the pandemic and the rising cost of living msps need to utilize the powers we have in this parliament to introduce policies to help and support those who need it most if we look at the performance of this scottish government in relation to education standards throughout scotland they have not fulfilled their promise to parents and their young people to make education their number one priority the smp have had 15 years in office to make a difference but they have failed to make meaning meaningful improvements to the life chances of our young people as we all know a good education and positive destinations for our young people are paramount to tackling poverty however disadvantaged children continue to have lower attainment than their peers the snp has never fully got to grips with tackling the attainment gap and is our young people who continue to suffer and this was raised by pam gossel and others during their contributions if we take numeracy and literacy results as an example the size of the gaps in 2020-21 were larger than any previous point since comparable data was made available in 2016-17 this shows that standards are slipping and the scottish government must explain why this has gotten worse under their watch yes certainly i was really interested thanking them for giving away the member mentioned a positive destinations a couple weeks ago data come out in positive destinations there's record levels of positive destinations particularly from school serving the most deprived areas can you see some feeling in your heart to say something positive about that and the success of scottish education [Applause] for making improvements but we're not making improvements quickly enough and that is the problem that we're facing just now and this is what the scottish government must get to grips with the scottish government initially set out funding for north lanarkshire council alongside alongside eight other challenge authorities which make omari mentioned during his contribution specifically targeting these areas to improve attainment and reduce poverty levels however since this has been scrapped and all local authorities will now have to share this funding and regrettably this takes away from areas such as north atlantic shire ensures that the scottish government do not have a clear plan to tackle the attainment gap in areas of real needs and this combined with the revised attainment gap funding being cut will not help improve outcomes for our young people or help to reduce the cost of the school day presiding officer we heard some interesting contributions this afternoon the cabinet secretary mentioned the 1140 hours early learning and childcare program during her contribution which is something that you've unanimously supported throughout this parliament however once again when asked about the unfair funding formula created by this government and it's causing nurseries within the pvi sector to close and reduce their hours not much was given in terms of response this needs sorted urgently and i once again urged the scottish government to take action and to review the funding formula for the pvi and local authorities to make sure that the 1140-hour program is fair for all oliver mendel mentioned the desperate state of our schools and how schools struggle to function with providing basic stationary for the classroom he also mentioned the reduction in teacher numbers which has undoubtedly impacted our most vulnerable young people michael maher spoke about the pressures faced by the child care sector and the snp's failed laptop rollout 30 of laptops distributed is nowhere near good enough as many of our young people are still without this vital tool to assist them with their school work and this was also raised by my colleague stephen care who reiterated how important education is to helping our young people have the best start in life one other issue that's been raised this afternoon by pam duncan glancey and others is the important role that local authorities play in reducing the cost of the school day for low-income families in the world affair members to my register of interest as like other councillors this afternoon i'm in my final week or nearing my final week of being a councillor and it was an honor and a privilege to serve my local community over the last five years and like other councillors tried my best to make improvements in the ward area that i represented one of the biggest frustrations however i experienced during my time as a councillor is the lack of funding councils received from the scottish government to help tackle the cost of the school day for low-income families during this year's budget process at one stage councils did have to navigate a real-time reduction in funding of roughly 264 million pounds we heard at that time that council's leaders branded this as barely survivable with many having to make cuts in their education budgets to balance the books in my view as local authorities who are best placed to implement policies which benefit the unique needs of an area for example forge wood and motherboard has completely different challenges social and economic to giffnook for example and eastwood however the snp's obsession with centralization has led to councils being stripped of their ability to make good local policies that will benefit the people who live in that local authority area the scottish government should empower our councils to reduce the cost of the school day for low-income families but by cutting budgets year-on-year it has led to many services that assist with the cost of the school day being reduced or scrapped all together yes certainly clear hockey thanks very much and i'm very grateful to the member for taking the intervention does she recognize the impact on families in scotland that a decade of damaging austerity cuts brexit place races and economic mismanagement have caused two children and families right across this land mostly join me and calling on the uk government to scrap the national insurance tax site reverse their cuts to universal credit and raise pensions and benefits which are reserved instead of imposing real term cuts megan gallagher presiding officer do you know what i condemn i condemn the scottish government lavishing millions of pounds of taxpayers money to fund yet another referendum instead of using that money to invest in our schools and other council services what we are debating in this chamber today as we're seeing a presiding officer breakfast clubs are important for many young people and it's not just politicians in this chamber who share this view a recent poll showed that almost all teachers surveyed believe that breakfast is important for pupils and research shows that having breakfast improves school performance by not having the service for parents or by increasing the cost of school meals this contributes to the financial pressures that many parents face it is my view that scottish government must fund councils properly so they can provide not only breakfast clubs but also other innovative ideas that help families reduce the cost of the school day for low income families and before i conclude my remarks presiding officer i would like to raise one last concern that relates to scottish government's consultation to remove school uniforms for secondary school pupils and the unintended consequences this could have on families and families expenses uniforms are an integral and sensible part of school life but they also give pupils a sense of dignity and foster discipline but most importantly they promote equality throughout the school setting if we had to change um the or remove school uniforms from our schools parents who are struggling financially may not be able to dress their children in expensive fashionable or designer clothing my concern is this could lead to bullying or young people being made to feel inferior to their peers and again this was a concern that was raised by snp members who said that dress down days can be difficult for families to afford and i think again the comment that was raised by ross greer and others was right and the um in relation to a specific um items for school uniforms and that needs to be looked at although i understand that the following the largest survey of school uniforms in the uk the school where association is found at the average cost of compulsory uniform and sportswear items is roughly 101 pounds 19 per pupil however if you had to cost the average fashionable or designer outfit it would be significantly more and this is why we have clothing grants available for families who need to sorry i'm about to conclude who needs this additional support and it goes back to my earlier point if councils were funded properly they could make the choice to increase this grant to assist with the cost of the school day for low-income families to conclude presiding officer it is disappointing that the snp has turned up today to give themselves a pat in the back for some of the measures they have introduced without taking any responsibility for the significant improvements they still have to make in reducing cost of the school day for low income families thank you thank you i now call on curlian summerville to wind up cabinet secretary thank you very much a presiding officer it is the scottish government's aim to build an education system that ensures equal access to that full package of education breaking down financial barriers to make a real difference to the lives of children and i was particularly struck by those who have spoken from across the chamber about the children's own experiences of poverty while they are in school the decisions that they take in an attempt to protect their family from some of the costs of the school day and we should all be cognizant of that and i'm also a particularly cognizant of the point that martin whitfield made about the importance of listening to child experiences and to their voices through this and i would reassure him that that is very much the government's attention on this and all education and policies we've heard uh some discussion from across the chambers about the scottish education system in general and i i think we should uh highlight some key facts before i really move into my closing remarks before the pandemic we did see a year-on-year trend in cfe levels that was positive we were seeing progress in 2021 we had the most passes at higher since the advent of devolution as i think as bob doris pointed out earlier we have just recently recorded the record high positive destinations for our young people we have a lot to be proud of in our education system but we of course know that there is much more to do and within the context of poverty it is very important that we recognize the impact of that so we have made um developments and improvements through our first tackling child poverty delivered to delivery plan but we know that there's more to do the almost 2.18 billion that was estimated within the previous plan to have been directly benefiting children is a great investment by the government but we know there is much more and that's why we've increased the value of eight scottish social security benefits by six percent a a great deal more than has happened with the westminster reserves and of course why we've doubled the game-changing scottish child payment to 20 pounds and we'll increase again to 25 pounds and of course extend the payment to children under 16 by the end of the year that's five times higher than the five pound payment we were being asked to juice less than five years ago and again as bob doris pointed out that's a a result of that increase that by the end of 2022 our package of five family benefits for low-income families will be worth ten thousand pound by the time a family's first child turns six that's a difference of more than eight thousand two hundred pounds for every eligible child born in scotland compared to other places in the uk and that i think highlights the unparalleled support by this government but i would also turn to a point made by oliver mundell when he said in his opening remarks i'm not denying there are challenges there when challenged by my my colleague on the impact of the uk government we can't get away from the impact that the uk government has on discussing poverty and evelyn tweed's remarks today really did show the impact that that's having on families right across scotland but we are seeing developments within the scottish attainment challenge funding to ensure that we are supporting our schools and particularly supporting our head teachers in march i launched the refresh scottish attainment challenge program with up to 200 million pounds worth of funding for the year ahead part of our increased one billion pound investment over this parliament recognizing that poverty exists in every community a portion of the 200 million pound funding will be extended to all local authorities within scotland that approach was developed and agreed by kosla through that process because it is very important that we recognize that poverty exists everywhere and i think oliver mandela is about to enter in i hope it converts to tell a presiding officer to tell me where we should cut the money from if he doesn't agree with the changes that kosla and the scottish government made all over monday well we've heard in this debate already about the significant waste that we've seen from this government and money spent on constitutional obsessions but how can the cabinet secretary sit there and say that cutting support to some of our poorest communities is the right thing to do we heard from one of our backbenchers that some of the scottish government's initiatives were a foretaste of what we get in an independent scotland is that one of them cabinet secretary well once again oliver mandel doesn't actually um deal with the challenge that governments have about ensuring that we are delivering a fair funding settlement to 32 local authorities and it is unfortunate that these scottish conservatives do still feel that they wish to see that money being taken away from the other local authorities that we've just given money to oliver mundell again with his open remarks attacks curriculum for excellence and knowledge based mindset is apparently what we need i think perhaps mr mandel should expand his reading list presiding officer and look at what the oecd have said that to shift away from the traditional knowledge versus skills focus by acknowledging the importance of both in learning and it is important that we acknowledge knowledge and acknowledge the importance of knowledge versus skills on that i'm afraid given the length of your previous intervention no i will not michael mara did also ask about the financial sustainability of the early learning and child care and we have of course it produced funding and produced figures for the financial sustainability in healthcheck and we are committed to publishing data on local authority and elc funding rates annually he also challenged the government to act rather than just talk and i would remind him of what has already been delivered by this government very recently core curriculum charges removed an increase in the universalism for free school meals to primaries four and five music tuition fees remove school clothing grants increase two thousand more teachers than pre-pandemic 1140 child care hours delivered support for free school meals in holiday free bus travel for under 22s i could go on presiding officer co-carl stewart also upset him stephen carr she didn't mention uh the campsite did not mention free devices so let me ask a question about free devices and free internet connections because they go together how many of the current secondary school population in scotland will leave school without getting the advantage of a free device and a free internet connection because by her own words many of the young people in scotland schools will never see the delivery of that snp so-called election promise thank you cabinet secretary i can give you this time back thank you presiding officer he mr kerr will of course be fully cognizant of the pledge that was in the manifesto was for the delivery um of the devices and the connectivity by the end of the parliamentary term that's exactly what this government is determined to do kokab stewart also mentioned the important work done by cpag on the cost of the school day and some of that work of course funded by the scottish government but through the scottish attainment challenge funding and i think it is very important work that's been done by cpag giving very practical advice to schools right across the country and i would commend them for it ross greer and others talked about the importance of the school uniform games which i will be very pleased to work with mr greer on during our time and our partnership together it can make very clear though i'm not sure where the scottish conservatives are getting this from we are not taking away school uniforms uh from any school the decision of school uniforms is for an individual school what's being provided is the guidance and i take on board that point that martin whitfield um mentioned earlier about pe i would also say i was not one of those people who excelled in in that area of expertise at school but that does not mean we i won't support those if we do at this time many um people within this debate have spoken about the importance of preschool meals and the importance of universalism and we of course do have um a policy at the moment of providing free school meals to primaries one to five who now benefit from balanced and nutritious free school lunches and during school term time and we're committed to rolling out universal free school lunches to all children in primary and special schools during this parliamentary term and this aligns of course with our commitment on free school milk again many members talks about the the real impact that curriculum costs it can make to individual families making decisions and indeed sometimes individual children making decisions about subject choices that's exactly why the scottish government has moved on this particular issue to ensure that we are providing its support to local government and to ensure that there are no core curriculum costs for primary and secondary school pupils we don't want to get into a position where families are being asked to meet the costs and resources for materials and practical lessons and i do believe that the removal of the charges on families will support participation in core curriculum activities which ties in of course to the government's action that has already been taken on music tuition and of course we are determined to do more with that working with our colleagues in kosla to make sure that there is a funding package in place that can support the development of music tuition and people's experiences of um music at school we've also heard once again the importance of the school clothing grant um within um this debate and again the important role um that has already been played by the scottish government and taken action on that mr kerr earlier on alluded in his remarks to digital devices i would reiterate it once again that our commitment is to ensure that every child has access to device and connection by the end of this parliament we've already provided 25 million pound in 20 20 21 as a response to the pandemic to deliver devices for more than 72 000 disadvantaged children and we provided 14 000 connectivity packages to help young people get online a further 45 million pound was made available earlier in early in 2021 to support remote learning and that was flexibly used by councils to create extra staff or to deliver even more additional devices or connectivity if that was required it is important to recognize the work that has been taken by many councils themselves on this area and that's why we have seen in total almost 280 000 devices that have been ordered in the process of being distributed to learners and that figure does include the the devices provided by the scottish government presiding officer in conclusion we have taken a great deal of action um on the cost of the school day right across government we know there is more to do that is exactly what this motion sets out in partnership with our colleagues in the scholars green party we are determined to take that challenge head on so while we look at the cost of the school day and when we look at the challenges that we have within that we absolutely still have to recognise the context that we are within within scotland on the levels of poverty within scotland and our determination across government to be able to tackle poverty as part of our challenge to improve the life chances of young people right across scotland so we've seen progress in tackling the poverty related attainment gap pre-pandemic we know we now need to pick up that pace but that's exactly why we've seen one billion pounds attainment funding committed by this government three and a half thousand additional teachers on top of those um already recruited within the pandemic and that's exactly why we've taken the action that i detailed earlier on my closing remarks to tackle the school day presiding officer it would be remiss of me however to close without wishing good luck to all the pupils right across scotland who from today are starting their exams and i hope on behalf of the chamber i can wish everybody who's taken part in the exam day this year the very best of success [Music] that includes the debate on reducing the cost of the school day for low-income families it's now time to move on to the next item of business which is consideration of motion 4115 on legislative consent motion british sign language bill uk legislation and i call on clear hockey to move the motion move presiding officer thank you minister the question on this motion will be put at decision time the next item of business is consideration of business motion 4172 in the name of george adam on behalf of the parliamentary bureau on setting out a change to this week's business any member who wishes to speak against the motion should press their request to speak button now and i call on george adam to move the motion thank you president officer and moved thank you minister no member has asked to speak against the motion therefore the question is that motion 4172b agreed are we all agreed the motion is therefore agreed and there are four questions to be put as a result of today's business the first is the amendment 4138.2 in the name of oliver mundell which seeks to amend motion 4138 in the name of shirley ann somerville on reducing the cost of the school day for low-income families be agreed are we all agreed the parliament is not agreed therefore will move to a vote and there'll be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system you