[Music] [Music] good afternoon my name is stephanie sanders the ford schools diversity equity and inclusion officer and i'd like to welcome everyone to today's policy talks at the ford school today's event is part of our public policy and institutional discrimination discussion series now in its fourth year this series offers ford school faculty staff students and others in the university community opportunities to hear from ford school faculty who discuss important issues of u.s public policy this series is designed to foster dialogue that contributes to the deeper understanding of ways in which discrimination manifests itself within institutions to that end today's discussion includes a closer look at economic empowerment and racial justice in conversation with bill byno this event is also part of our towsley foundation lecture series and features bill bynum who is one of our towsley foundation policymakers in residence this year on behalf of the ford school thank you to the towsley foundation for their support and thank you bill for joining us today before we get started a couple of quick notes about format so we'll have some time toward the end for questions from the audience we've received some questions in advance but i also encourage you to submit questions or engage in dialogue in the live chat on youtube or tweet your questions to policy talks now i'd like to introduce today's faculty discussant bill bynum began his career his professional career in north carolina by helping to establish self-help a pioneer in the development finance industry and later he built nationally recognized programs at the north carolina rural economic development center in 1994 he moved to mississippi to become founding ceo of enterprise corporation of the delta and in 1995 he organized hope community credit union today bill leads the family of hope organizations and they include hope enterprise corporation hope credit union and hope policy institute all of these provide financial services they leverage private and public resources engage in advocacy and otherwise act as a catalyst to fulfill its mission of strengthening communities building assets and improving lives throughout the deep south it also mitigates the extent to which factors such as race gender birth place and wealth may limit one's ability to prosper since 1994 hope has generated over 3 billion dollars in financing that has benefited more than two million people throughout alabama arkansas louisiana mississippi and tennessee all while shaping policies and practices that have improved conditions in opportunity starved communities nationwide bill has also served on many boards that include but are certainly not limited to the aspen institute and the naacp legal and education defense fund he serves as an advisor to bank of america goldman sachs wells fargo and e pluribus unum he's a recipient of the heinz award and he previously chaired the consumer financial protection bureau consumer advisory board the treasury department community development advisory board and served as a member of the biden harris presidential transition team bill is a towersley policymaker in residence right here at the university of michigan and the gerald r ford school of public policy uh he's also an alumnus of the henry crown fellowship emerson collective dial fellowship and salzburg global fellowship please join me in welcoming bill bynum stephanie thank you it's an honor to be here and i'm really excited to be a part of the four school family great i always find it helpful to start by anchoring my work in the region where we serve and so please bear with me as i walk through a few slides that hopefully uh help to accomplish this what you see before you is a map of provided by the atlantic magazine that shows where the slave population united states was concentrated prior to the civil war you can see as you would expect much of that is across the south including the region where i work today which includes alabama arkansas louisiana mississippi and tennessee if you fast forward to today and you look at places in the united states where poverty is most entrenched and rooted the u.s government has a definition of persistent poverty of places counties where the poverty level has been over 20 percent for at least three decades in a row uh these are places where poverty has exceeded 20 percent for half a century 50 at least 50 years and you see significant overlap in the prior map of where slaveholding was concentrated in these maps of where the you have the highest rates of unemployment the worst education health outcomes um where you have highest concentrations of predatory payday lenders and check cashes and subprime lenders the fewest bank branches and not coincidentally where you have some of the highest concentrations of people in color all these conditions that are in this darkest shades on the peripheral maps are places where those outcomes are are worse than in other parts of this um all this already significantly under resourced and underdeveloped region and so what we do at my organization hope the family of hope organizations as stephanie shared we started as a loan fund back in the mid 90s with an objective of improving conditions for in in the region by providing access to financial services we wanted to apply a market driven strategy to problem that has persisted in this region for a long time and so we started by providing financing for um entrepreneurs to help them provide good jobs support good jobs to pay good wages and offer good benefits but we soon found that jobs and businesses alone are not enough to support a economy that prospers businesses need climates that offer good homes and education so you can attract workers and managers uh you need health care providers and all the things that people in more fluid more economically mobile communities take for granted but we're disproportionately not available in the deep south and so we started by providing financial services and that has grown over the years the slide here shows where we are today actually this was there's a about a year and a half a couple years old it precedes the pandemic but on a you know any course any day we may serve households that house up to 100 000 people across the deep south almost half of our members didn't have a bank account or were relying on predatory lenders prior to becoming a member of our credit union almost 90 percent our people of color more than half are women and you can see where you have um again the highest rates of unbanked and underbanked uh people in in our region and that disproportionately plays out in communities of color and so we we served in a very resource and financially underserved region um in addition to just providing access to basic banking services when you look at the wealth gap in the united states many uh those are familiar with the fact that the gap is 10 to 13 to one black households versus white households when you consider what one owns versus what they owe the wealth amount of wealth on a family's balance sheet but that gap rises to 100 to one when you look at black families with children compared to white families with children and clearly that is not sustainable two of the most important and effective ways to close the wealth gap is home ownership which is still the primary asset almost americans balance sheet and business ownership which while it doesn't close the gap fully it shrinks it from 10 to 12 to one to three to one and so business ownership of homeownership is where we focus a lot of our attention and again you can see here where some of our uh some of the impact that we've had over the years we've closed over 30 000 mortgages across our region most of those to people of color you can see the percentage of people of color in the deep south compared to our mortgage lending which in mississippi we did analysis last year of mortgage lending by banks and credit unions that report data to the federal government and the um in mississippi 17 of all mortgages went to black um home buyers this is in a state that's almost 40 percent black and so we are are working hard to close that gap as well as to uh ensure that women have more access to banking services um women black women are denied at twice the rate for mortgages than white women in the in across the country as i said we started as a business loan fund we continue to be very active in closing business loans when you look at the us government's primary program for closing capital gaps for underserved businesses is the small business 7a guarantee loan program and and less than two percent um i think the 1.2 percent of all sba loans in arkansas went to entrepreneurs of color in a state that's 14 to 15 black so we we we again are very intentional about focusing our investments in underserved on communities you see that half of our loans go to entrepreneurs of color unfortunately organizations like ours are are are rare and are shrinking this slide shows where minority depository institutions institutions owned by communities of color are a dying breed particularly since the great recession you see that was 120 in 2013 and 40 fewer um when we last captured this data in 2018 and the assets are are much smaller um we're already smaller compared to non-black institutions prior to the recession and those assets have shrunk over the years and so these vital institutions what we like to consider as financial first responders in some of the most distressed communities are shrinking and going away a few other data points as i mentioned a high percentage of our members did not have a banking relationship uh prior to hope and there's very few things that you can do to climb the economic ladder that at some point doesn't require financial tools we talk less and less about our mission in terms of providing financial services but we talk about in terms of opening opportunity um in opportunity star places and financial resources are one of our primary tools for doing this and so we capture a very intentional about capturing data both to inform our work but also to use in our advocacy efforts um you know again we are we know that the reason the people in the region that we serve have less access to financial tools almost 30 percent um record report having an income of our members less than thousand dollars and any given day the average in that they have an account i hope is less than a thousand dollars so these are very resource constrained uh people that is why even as we have grown we know that by ourselves we are dropping the bucket so we are very active in advocating for additional resources to support communities like ours not just in the deep south but across the country this is a this slide depicts several other advocacy organizations partners others who care about these issues that we work with particularly over the since the onset of the pandemic to advocate for more investments in community development financial institutions minority financial institutions to ensure that the federal resources that are being made available to get the economy and communities back on their feet don't miss those who need it most and to push back against some of the um some of the resistance to um fair housing when we started this work we thought that some of the doctoring that supported uh access equal access to fair housing would was settled but we've seen in the past year and a half of three of the largest banks in our region that have been fined for redlining in the memphis area so these fights must continue and the data that we provide and the advocacy that it fuels is a critical part of of making sure that these issues don't go unaddressed another result of our advocacy program as i mentioned uh was um providing making providing loans to entrepreneurs during times of crisis we did this after hurricane katrina um when more resources that had never gone into the deep south were going into the communities but they were missing some of the hardest hit communities we did it after the financial crisis when uh as banks were closing at record numbers i think 90 of all banks that closed um over the decade following the uh great recession were in low-income census tracts um we went from eight locations to 30 locations during that decade so we ran to the fire to try to put it out we also did this during the paycheck protection program in the this was the federal uh program that was designed to provide recoverable grants forgivable loans rather to businesses that were closing as a result of the economic crisis that was spurred by the pandemic almost 40 percent of all black businesses closed uh at that time and and these many businesses are small or small mom and pop businesses that while they may not be on the radar of the big banks they are critical providers of jobs for in low-income communities particularly for people who may not have um higher skills and higher education um to help them acquire other um jobs that pay better ways is the benefits but they they both provide employment but also provide critical services in these opportunity staff communities and so in a normal year we do 550 on small business loans over the year from april 2020 to april 2021 we closed 5000 paycheck protection zones most of those the small mom-and-pop businesses uh very small loans um and that was critically important to celebrities communities but as important was our advocacy to work with congress to work with the administration uh both the previous administration and continue with the harrison administration to advocate for supports for these sole proprietorships and we were able to change the rules from the first round of the paycheck protection loan program to the second round when it was opened up and made available to organizations like hope and other community development lenders across the country we also advocated as i mentioned for an increase in investments in these undercapitalized institutions um in a normal year the the community development financial institution program was started during the clinton administration and a normal year the budget is around 200 million dollars in grants and investments in these organizations the demand is often three to four times that in terms of requests for these funds so we advocated for for congress to significantly increase these investments um this resulted in 12 billion dollars in commitments to invest in community development banks credit union loan funds venture funds micro business funds uh and and that was and that was uh critically important data from our policy institute was included in the language that the house financial service committee has and ultimately the house passed and was included in the legislation that was ultimately passed by congress and signed by president trump in last december as a part of the cares act it included in that 12 billion 9 billion for equity investments in credit unions and banks um in capital star regions like the one we serve there's just not as much equity um and across the country black banks are woefully under capitalized relative to their peers well for credit unions the our regulator initially put forward rules that limited credit unions ability to get to take full advantage of the program banks were able to access these funds for at least 30 years or in perpetuity in some cases and the an attorney at the national credit union administration which is the fdic for credit unions um just put forth guidance that said credit unions could only get it for 50 have access to these funds for 15 years well we we provided data that showed that two and a half million people would lose out and take advantage of this program as a result of these rules we pointed out that it was unfair to some of the most distressed communities many of these communities of color and it also was inconsistent with congressional intent um in an incredibly uh short time ncaa changed their based on our advocacy pulling together other other advocates of color who cared and others who cared about these communities and they turned uh they turned around and they changed the rules and now credit unions were able to take full advantage of that as a result um last month i had the honor of attending what it was a watershed event in my nearly four decades of doing this work at the cash room in the treasury department during the freeman's bank forum is properly named after the bank that one of the first black banks in the united states history this last president was frederick douglass and during this for this forum secretary yellen and vice president harris announced 8.7 billion dollars in base investments in banks and credit unions across the country hope credit union was a recipient of 88 million dollars an award that we can leverage uh ten times every dollar of capital on a bank's balance sheet can be leveraged eight to ten times so that will get us to roughly another eight between eight and nine hundred million dollars to invest in some of the most distressed communities in this country it took us 14 years to grow from um from from our startup to have 80 to 90 million dollars on our balance sheet and in one day the we received the commitment of 88 million dollars from the federal government that is a statement about the importance of policy advocacy and shows what can be done when you take the voices from these communities and collectively advocate for the kinds of investments that can make a difference in addition to public policy and advocacy one of the things i think sets our work apart from many other organizations like ours across the country is that we work very closely with the private sector to change their policies and practices the image on the screen is uh one of our first borrowers one of our first depositors in itabina mississippi a small town the mississippi delta where um 1500 people mississippi valley state university is located a very important historically black college in the heart of mississippi delta that educates leaders in that resource star part of the country but if you look at the demographics it is you can get a sense of the distress that exists there um not only the education and income and banking access um outcomes but the energy of the power system um grid of the community the backup is a car battery um that indicates the kind of woeful investments and infrastructure that exist in these communities miss miss fanny dodson here was one of our first depositors and she made her first deposit ever in a federally insured depository with money she received on her 100th birthday and hope credit union after we took over the bank branch that had it closed after the financial crisis um so we are we we partnered with one of the largest banks in the region to take that over instead of close it we converted into a credit union branch and we're now serving that community with the kind of tools that others take for granted in addition to banks um we have worked hard to import capital into these communities it's not exactly reparations but it is repairing these communities um when you look at abina if we had we have had more than half of the deposits in that community but if we had every deposit that was available it would only be one and a quarter million dollars roughly hardly enough to support jobs businesses education investments uh housing um and other infrastructure that is vital to a community's prosperity and so what we've done is work to import capital in what we call transformational deposits netflix last um march reached out to us when they one of the leaders of netflix had read the color of money and felt that it would be important for netflix to use some of its cash holdings and deposit it in minority depositories i knew some of the people at netflix they knew the new hopes were and we were the first to receive a deposit it was a 10 million dollar deposit that was at 10 basis points and which is roughly what banks pay for checking and savings uh ins but we were forced prior to the transformational deposits to import capital in very um expensive cds and money markets that cost more and came from people looking for high rates um because we didn't have access to the very low cost deposits in these communities netflix uh lit a fire and before long we had deposits from paypal thermal fisher dick's sporting goods everybody's life sciences nike has recently made and deposit a 10 million deposit in our credit union we've raised over 100 million dollars over the past year in low-cost deposits that allow us to for finance that we use to finance homes businesses alternatives to payday lenders in some of the most distressed communities across the country um i'll end with um just a reference to the box at the top uh an effort that we call the deep south economic mobility collaborative uh we partnered with nine with seven cities um birmingham montgomery and alabama new orleans and baton rouge and louisiana jackson mississippi memphis tennessee and little rock arkansas and historically black colleges and universities in each of those areas to uh initially identify some of those 5 000 entrepreneurs that needed paycheck protection loans that couldn't get it from their um from other banks goldman sachs provided a credit facility that helped us to make those 5 000 uh loans and file 140 million dollars into entrepreneurs to stabilize them and get them on those help them get on the other side of the crisis we continue we're continuing those partnerships to now try to ensure that the tree of the trillions of dollars that are going into the economy they don't widen the gaps as we saw after hurricane katrina and after the economic uh after the great recession often those investments go in the hands of of people who have always been at the front of the door front of the line and don't reach the hardest hit communities with the resources that we've been able to secure from the federal government with some of the partnerships that we now have in place and the partner including partnerships with anchor institutions hbcus are often located in economically distressed communities the cities that i mentioned have black mayors for the most part and they all have a vested interest in making sure that their economies are able to benefit from the trillions of dollars that are coming in and some of those resources go to support um strengthening the water system here in jackson which is comparable to flint michigan uh supporting green developments affordable housing and opening up doors of opportunity for communities that need it most so you can take the um powerpoint down and um i hope that gives you a sense of some of the things that are keeping us busy and some of the opportunities that are on the horizon thanks bill so much for sharing your thoughts on economic empowerment and by describing in great detail the work being done within the hope organization i i had no idea i've watched a couple of your videos uh and you know talks you've done in other organizations but i had no idea of all of the work that went on uh to make sure that people are empowered and have opportunity for upward social mobility at this time i'd like to encourage attendees to again to engage in the dialogue in the live chat also on youtube or you can tweet your questions to policy talks we did receive a few questions and i'd like to start by asking um the first question so the first question is what in your opinion what is at the root of stigmatic mistreatment against disenfranchised populations that keep such behaviors alive that's a tough one i was actually a psych major and i it is still hard for me to get my arms around that i i think that there's a perception of limited resources and that it's a zero-sum game and some of the um some of my psych experience and the demonstrations and lectures uh suggested that when resources are scarce people align with people who they can most relate to and the um one of the first things that people relate to and you can see is skin color and that's it's unfortunate because certainly people in appalachia and the black and and and who are suffering from extraction in that region have more in common with people in the mississippi delta black folks in mississippi delta in an alabama black belt than they do with white people in wealthy communities and so there's i think if we could get people to engage and vote in their own self-interest rather than from a position of fear and scarcity i think we'd see very different outcomes but that's you know there's so much on of the narrative that pits people against each other and it's if you win i lose and i think that's not serving anyone well and in a nation where that is becoming increasingly diverse i think you know it probably perpetuates more anxiety um and and and that is unfortunate but uh but i think some of those just um it's just just unbased fear is is and that's perpetuated by some of the political narrative people trying to hold on to positions and power and resources unfortunately fuel some of what we're seeing as a follow-up to that question uh this this series really looks at discrimination and how it shows up uh in institutions and the next question is how can legal advocacy you talk quite a bit about advocacy so how can legal advocacy play a role in supporting economic and racial justice it is it is critical you noted earlier that i'm i'm fortunate to serve on the board of the naac legal defense fund interestingly i i was going to go to law school and try to be the next thurgood marshall or follow in his footsteps but i got sidetracked by this economic um justice work which has kept me busy i haven't made it back to law school yet but i i i serving on the legal defense fund is important one of the things that thurgood marshall emphasized in the creation of ldf was economic opportunity and not just legal when you need to you need the courts to back you up that's important um and but i've also one reason i did not go back to law school is that i saw in the mid 80s a lot of doctrine that again i thought was settled being challenged by the courts and felt that economic resources could be more durable and sustaining um but you also have to fight on all fronts one of the projects that um where that comes plays out um in our region is is a housing development in the heart of mississippi delta in a community called moorhead uh uh when it's one of the communities where we took over a bank branch that was to close after the financial crisis and i went to meet with the mayor and he asked me to get in his pickup truck and he drove me around the town and he took me literally on the other side of the tracks to a community that had been built in the 70s to bring the work workers out of the country rural areas closer to the town so that they would be more accessible to the plants and to the businesses but it was intentionally built outside of the town limits so that the they could not vote in the municipal elections and so the mayor said that it was anything that we could do to help proven conditions in that community which was an affordable housing development it had been built in the 70s um and the was built with poor construction poor wiring um infrastructure there was standing sewage in the streets potholes cracks in the sidewalks and so we actually were able to work with goldman sachs and others to get some investment into that community relatively small amount and there were about 50 to 60 homes there uh we had charrettes with the residents ask them what they wanted in the design but back to the legal part the the um developer of those of that uh those homes was sued uh because of the poor construction and and the and the fact that people had been harmed actually some people had died in electrical fires as a result and so they were sued and the properties were turned over to the residents but now they own terrible properties and didn't have the resources to develop them so when we were when we were able to um take over the branch and raise some resources we have now renovated those homes but but for the legal challenge they would not own the home um the university of mississippi's legal law center actually led that lawsuit and was able to get the ball rolling to turn that community around but it took the it took a collective effort uh you need to couple legal advocacy and investment and other um these communities need everything that anyone in any other communities need and sometimes it takes um they'll take legal advocacy to get it across the finish line bill you talked earlier about how your organization has grown over time uh over i think for maybe 14 years to where it is today so can you talk a little bit about strategically how you have continued to build your advocacy work in ways that have really led to the significant changes that you you talked about and you mentioned throughout your presentation how can um how you continue to build on that advocacy work and get the whole name out there well it's actually been we've been at this since 94 so about 27 going on 28 years now the first it took us 14 to get to 90 million which we were able to get in one day 80 million 90 million one day um recently because of advocacy and the advocacy is fueled in a couple of ways i think first and foremost is fueled by our policy team which takes data from our members from our experiences and and uses that to get in front of um public officials at the state the local and the federal level uh been more effective at the federal level given the history of the political environment here in the deep south um but we take data and show what kind of return on investment can be realized uh what can be happened when you help people become homeowners how it benefits everyone and not just some and so we we are very um focused on bringing real world data to bear to policy makers to businesses um to help inform and shape their practices we uh also have been fortunate to have the support of others who care about this work who are very influential you know i was hired by the board that hired me included the chairman of walmart uh sam walton's son the head of the largest electric utility in this region as well as a former governor and advocates who work in grassroots advocates who work in the mississippi delta and so there they brought their credibility to bear they opened doors they brought their peers um to the table for conversations that i could not have had independently and collectively we've been able to convince people that these investments are in the best interest there's a lot more to be done but i do think that anchoring it in in the realities of the communities has been critical to our success as well as finding like-minded um allies who care about these issues this the next question uh comes from twitter and chelsea says that she's worked in local economic development during the first year of covet 19 and she helps small businesses access emergency capital one challenge that minority-owned businesses face was not having the business documents like the p l etc needed to apply for uh the ppp um and also other funds was this an issue in your experience was this an issue and how did you assist with that it certainly has been an issue it was an issue before ppp and and one of the things that um confront us often is is a business's ability to provide the data we need to make good decisions and for the for the federal paycheck protection program that not having documentation was not an option and so we engage local business assistance organizations who were close to these communities and would roll their sleeves and hold their hands to go back and collect the data um you know these businesses you know they're they're not you know they're not lazy they're not poor they're not dumb they just are resource constrained and so when you're you know they do more with less than anyone that i know um so they're incredibly entrepreneurial but you have to prioritize where you put your time and resources and so many of them are invisible and operate under the radar cash businesses and so i had to take the time to help them pull the data together fortunately we we've had advocates i mean again technical assistance partners who did that um we we we've never been under the illusion that what we do is all this needed and so we've been very intentional about collaborating with others who provide other critical pieces of the puzzle and together we've been able to help businesses help homeowners help families uh get to a better position so this next question um comes from eric cleburn so eric mentions you you mentioned the importance of anchor institution so what are some initiatives you would like to see colleges and universities pursue to promote economic empowerment and reduce the racial wealth gap you know i think is is it's not just applicable for historically black colleges um but across institutions you've got incredible um expertise you um you we buy we contract with we have all kinds of vendor and purchasing relationships i think being intentional about um making sure that that that business is that business you do business with diverse entrepreneurs with diverse suppliers and contractors uh that is certainly i think low-hanging fruit um you know it is maybe you don't go to church or not in the country club live in the same neighborhood as these business owners but so it may take a little extra effort but there are businesses that are out there that can provide um high quality services and and products and services and if we're going to close these gaps we're going to have to be intentional about broadening the universe of our relationships in doing business with hiring um um people who are uh understand these markets i also think another thing that we can do is look at who are the decision makers in our institutions um often the c-suites are not very diverse racial or gender uh wise and and i i i'm really glad michigan is taking these issues seriously but more institutions need to do that and but again back to work with hbcus when you look at the communities where they're located they are going to need all sorts of investments the infrastructure is often crumbling they need health care facilities they need service businesses restaurants you know all the things that again communities that thrive have and that need capital and so partnering with these institutions to identify um some of the uh investments that can move the needle on improving infrastructure often those are housing for faculty and student housing in these communities so we're partnering on some of those initiatives but again there's nothing that a thriving community needs that um these underserved communities don't also need but that lack the resources but uh then i think these anchor these institutions colleges particularly are looked to not just for advice um but to also fuel the economy of the neighborhoods where they're located and so we're being very intentional about trying to find ways to partner to to leverage their important positioning absolutely so in our final question this question is from uh page uh so she wants to know and i'm curious as well what are hope's next goals for the near future are there any new programs and issues that hope is planning to develop you know it's interesting um we we're we're excited about the position that we find ourselves in um we'll assume we started as a million and a half dollar loan fund um with the enterprise corporation the the credit union was a project in church to try to provide an alternative to payday lending and probably toward the end of this year we'll have over a billion dollars in assets um you know small relative to need but there's a lot that we can do with that we want to go deeper in the communities that we serve there's a lot unmet opportu need an opportunity that i think we can help fuel um we'll be looking to try to take advantage of technology we're kind of a high-touch entity but we also need to be high-tech you know we rely on data we rely on um more people and communities of color have have smartphones compared to their non-white um and non-black peers but unfortunately they don't have banking relationships but that gives us an opportunity to serve people through um virtually through on online and and through their smartphones and so we'll be looking to amp up our technological capabilities and go deeper um that way but also really expand our partnerships we've got more hbcu per capita um in this region than any other part of the country a lot of faith-based organizations non-profits that are itching to help improve conditions in their communities so i don't think there'll be a shortage of of opportunities is just a matter of um how we prioritize and make the most of it well that's all the time that we have to do i'd like to first ask you do you have any closing remarks and then i'll uh say something to close us out no i i think i'm as i said earlier i'm really thrilled to be part of the ford school family i i've created a great deal in my class last year of learning and being inspired by the students um i hope that um we can import some of that energy and maybe we'll see a few fourth school alumni come to the deep south and help us take this work to the next level so again just look forward to building on our relationship well in closing i'd like to thank you uh bill our faculty for being our faculty discussant uh and also your talented policymaker in residence i thank you so much for talking with us today about economic empowerment and racial justice and we are indeed fortunate to have you be part of the ford school family i'd like to thank all of the attendees for joining us for today's event the next installment of the public policy and institutional discrimination discussion series is february the 10th with associate professor of public policy and land and the focus of this discussion will be on immigration reform and racial justice so this end today ends today's events thank you all so much for attending thank you
