thank you the next item of business is the debate in motion 7727 in the name of John Swinney on budget Scotland number two bill I would invite those members who would wish to speak in the debate to please prior to the request to speak buttons and I call on John Swinney Deputy first minister to speak to and to move the motion around nine minutes please officer I move the motion that stands in my name the Scottish government like governments all over the world has been faced with a difficult set of choices in setting its budget as I indicated to Parliament when I addressed the budget settlement in December the voltel financial environment including record levels of inflation and the cost of living crisis combined to create an exceptionally difficult fiscal landscape the IMs report on Tuesday reflects us and indicates that the UK is predicted to be the only major economy to shrink this year against that very challenging backdrop we've taken decisive action to deliver a meaningful and Progressive budget for the year ahead that delivers for the people of Scotland but the pose available to us we've chosen to commit substantial resources to prioritize support for families and the most vulnerable to invest in our public services and to support businesses through these difficult days a central tenet of this budget is that we have asked the people of Scotland to contribute a fair share of their taxable income and in the case of higher errors to pay slightly more than they have in the past to help to create a fairer Society one of which we all want to live and enjoy a range of benefits which are not available throughout the United Kingdom whether that is free prescriptions tuition fees personal care or concessionary travel the people of Scotland have access to a social contract with government that delivers so much more to each and every person who chooses to live in Scotland together with our partners in the Scottish green party we are working to create a progressive path for Scotland the 2023-24 Scottish budget supports an ambitious path for Scotland which focuses on eradicating child poverty transforming the economy to deliver a just transition to Net Zero and providing sustainable public services for the people of our country this government leads by example in the Bold steps it is taking to address poverty in Scotland this is demonstrated through our social security system which has been developed with dignity fairness and respect at its heart we are committing 442 million pounds in the year ahead to our unique Scottish child payment this is the most ambitious child poverty reduction measure in the United Kingdom I'm proud that this government has not only delivered the child payment but has expedited its increase early and above inflation to 25 pounds per week per eligible child from November 2022 that is an increase of 150 percent in eight months providing practical support to families most affected by the cost crisis indeed the Scottish fiscal commission forecast that around 387 000 children could benefit from the Scottish child payment in 23 24.
The Scottish government recognizes that the burden of high inflation is felt most by households on the lowest incomes which is why we are operating all remaining Scottish benefits by 10.1 percent from April 2023. we've also gone beyond the energy support provided by the UK government to provide 20 million pounds for the fuel and Security fund to help households at risk of disconnection continuing this funding into 2023-24 as the energy prices continue to bite of course will you ready yeah thank the deputy first Minister for giving giving way I mean he mentioned the Scottish fiscal commission he must be concerned that their projections that over the next 50 years the Scottish economy will lag behind the United Kingdom economy what plans has he got in this budget to try and deal with that problem Deputy Christmas I think there's two things I would say to Mr Rooney the first is that in the Scottish fiscal commission's projections about tax they indicate our strengthenings the income tax base in Scotland which is a reflection of the strengthening of the economy which the fiscal commission expects and the second thing I would say is that the contents of the national strategy and economic transformation with its focus on entrepreneurship its focused on the development of regional or strong Regional economies is a foundation of the economic strategy that will deliver for the people of Scotland so Mr rainey's Right to raise the issues of economic performance because they like the heart of being able to generate the revenues to create the fair society that I have talked about next year proceeding officer we will support our investment in ensuring that children get the best start in life with the investment of around a billion pounds in high quality Early Learning and child care provision and are for the 42 million pounds to be invested in whole different provision and expanding our support for school year children of course Stephen from the Chancellor's Autumn statement we know that there are about 200 million pounds extra for the next two years coming to Scotland in the form of Barnet consequentials for education but in this budget is less than 100 million going additionally into education where is the other 100 million that doesn't appear in the budget for education I think this demonstrates a spectacular level of ignorance on the part of Stephen care is Mr care unaware the education in Scotland is fundamentally delivered by local authorities who've seen a 550 million pound increase in their budget in addition to the extra money for colleges and universities that the educational signal just put on the record well if Mr chair is shouting at me where's the 100 million local government budgets have gone up by 500 million pounds and they deliver education in Scotland and the budgets for colleges and universities are with Mr care please keep up with a budget and we might make some more progress presenting of Scotland is built on the foundations of our public services for those reasons the government has prioritized investment in the National Health Service and I'm delighted that we are in a position to provide over um a billion pounds of an increase to the Health Service in Scotland that provides over 13 billion pounds for NHS Health and Social care services in Scotland supporting NHS boards to continue to drive forward our five-year recovery plan for social care and integration we are delivering 1.7 billion pounds of improvements as we prepare for the introduction of the of the national care service and we'll support the delivery of the 10 pounds 90 real living wage for adult social care with an additional 100 million pounds investment in local Services it continues to be a priority and we have reconfirmed our commitment to work with local government recognizing the importance of collaboration and partnership and to work with accountability in delivering High quality person-centered Public Services the budget provides over 13.2 billion pounds for local government in Scotland which is an increase of over 570 million pounds for essential Public Services delivered by councils we will also invest almost 3.4 billion pounds across the justice system in 2324 including an additional 80 million pounds for the Scottish police Authority presenting officer as we look to a more sustainable Greener future in Scotland our Ambitions to deliver economic growth must be achieved through delivering a just transition to Net Zero over a decade ago the government led the way with its inspiring climate change targets as we know what to deliver a net zero future the Scottish government will continue to Lead the Way by investing over 4.6 billion pounds in our Net Zero Energy and transport portfolio this includes over 1.4 billion pounds to maintain improve and decarbonize Scotland's real Network ensuring that this critical infrastructure continues to serve the needs of the people of Scotland we've provided substantial funding to help households face the cost of living crisis the next year's budget will continue this and will spend over 360 million pounds across our heat and buildings and fuel poverty budgets protecting Scotland's natural environment continues to be a priority and we will also spend almost 467 million pounds on restoring our peatlands expanding Scotland's forests and tackling the causes of climate change and biodiversity loss all contributing to the achievement of the Net Zero ambition so of course Monica I'm grateful to the cabinet secretary I've just come from an event that was well attended by msps um with the real unions and it was about getting the right investment in real but they said that the government said last March there would be a national conversation unreal but no date has been set so how can we make sure we've got the right investment when we're not even having the conversation it's Christmas I I'm pretty sure the transport Minister and other ministers are regularly engaged in the discussion about real but I I will reflect on the comments made by and put on the record by Monica Lennon because she's right it's important that a real network and infrastructure meets the needs of those who require to use it that's why we were pleased to bring forward the proposals on peak real fears to remove some of the disincentive to the full utilization of our real Network the government is committed to sustained investment to support businesses and our economy which is why we're providing the Scottish national Investment Bank with an additional 244 million pounds to continue its investment in Scottish businesses projects and communities over the next five years and this will be one of the most significant Investments the government makes we will invest 42 million pounds to boost entrepreneurship by supporting startups in Scotland through our national network of tech scalers and prescalers and of course as we manage the transition to Net Zero we must ensure that communities are well supported with an investment of 50 million pounds in the just transition fund for the Northeast and for Scotland in the course of the pre-budget dialogue businesses asked me to freeze the poundage and business rates and the government has been able to do that which is expected to save rate pairs over 300 million pounds in the first coming year which combined with the transitional release that will be applied to the forthcoming revaluation and the continuation of the small business bonus scheme will remove 100 000 properties from business rates all together this package ensures that Scotland has the lowest poundage in in the business rates in the United Kingdom for the fifth year in a row it supports a package of release worth an estimated 744 million pounds this budget presenting officer delivers the priorities of a progressive government it provides us with an opportunity to demonstrate how we can collaboratively and successfully as a parliament in the most difficult times deliver support and the best outcomes to the people of Scotland because I believe this budget represents a fair and ambitious package and I urge all members across the chamber to support it today thank you Deputy first minister and I now call on Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the finance and public administration committee around eight minutes please Mr thank you presenting officer our key theme of the financial public administration committee's report on the Scottish budget 2324 there's a need for the Scottish government to balance responding to immediate pressures and undertaking long-term strategic financial planning it's understandable given the current economic climate the ministers are focused on the Here and Now however the committee believes that more attention is needed to ensure Scotland's Financial sustainability the intermediate challenges of high inflation and interest rates the cost of living crisis and ongoing demands for improved public sector pay offers will persist into 23-24.
Only today we saw interest rates rise to four percent and interest payments on UK government debt already an eye-watering 115 billion pounds a year to put that in perspective that's more than five times Scotland's public sector wage Bill the chaos of the short-lived trust government and the innate economic policies which Tory msps such as Myrtle Fraser and Stephen Curry to emulate directly to the imposition of 55 billion pounds in tax increases and spending cut summit's rocketing inflation and as a result households across the UK will endure an average Fallen living standards of 7.1 over the next two years the biggest fall in disposable income since Scottish records began in 1988. responsibility I may have misunderstood but as Mr Gibson speaking on behalf of his committee or is he speaking on behalf of himself because the comments that he has given in his speech so far would lead me to believe it's the latter rather than the former well my understanding is that Mr Goosen is speaking behalf of the committee Mr Gibson thank you very much depression officer the deputy Forest Minister told the committee that and I quote if all members of his committee would sign up to the comments he's just made Kenneth Gibson I have to say I think probably most of them actually probably would to be honest um in terms of the comments that have been made regarding the fall and living standards of 7.1 percent and I know that the lady speaking sitting next to you wished him to mean if she also wishes to do so it was not a great supporter of the policies imposed by Miss Mrs trust which you were so keen on us adopting in this Parliament I shall move on balancing the books this year will be a Herculean feat giving an early January the deputy first ministers 200 to 500 million points short uh this year in his budget and an update on that during winding up would be helpful the shot for largely 23 24 budget pressures and in addition the sfc expects resource funding to increase by only 270 million pounds in real terms compared to the latest funding position for 22.23 that of course assumes a 3.2 percent level inflation using the treasury GDP deflator a reality of course is much different given that can the Consumer Price Index inflation exceeds 10 percent indeed The Institute of fiscal studies a week ago today taking into account a venue Financial uh one-off top-ups unavailable next year said that funding will fall by 1.6 in real terms even using the GDP deflator tough times lie ahead following on from last year's UK government real terms cut to a capital budget of 9.8 percent 2324 includes a follow real terms at UK of 185 million pounds even using the GDP deflator while construction inflation is in reality over 14 the deputy first amounts have confirmed that ministers are now unable to fund all the projects are planned as part of the capital spending review and the committee therefore asked the Scottish government which projects will be deprioritized and how the Fallen Capital spend will impact on its ability to achieve both its Net Zero Ambitions and the delivery of national outcomes from the UK government's November fiscal statement the Scottish government's resource spending review no longer provides a level of certainty or a clear planning scenario intended when published last May with this significant change public bodies must manage their finances and plan future Service delivery we've asked for more clarity and certainty around resource spending to ensure there is confidence in the sustainability of Scotland's public finances we therefore seek an updated raw spending review as soon as possible Professor Anton muscatelli said this year's budget protects certain public services and welfare payments so serious thought needs to be given to ensuring that growth can continue improving the productivity and resilience of the economy in the medium to long term we often highlight the need to address Scotland's long-standing demographic productivity and growing attacks-based challenges the sfc's first fiscal citizenability report when published in March will be a valuable contribution to how we meet these challenges the government's National strategy for economic transformation must be pursued with Vigor and we've asked the government how it's driving forward this strategy and how Current financial constraints impact delivery the sfc forecasts that plans to increase the higher and top rates of income tax by a penny in 23 24 would raise revenues of 30 million pounds on paper however when behavioral changes factored in this figure reduces to only 3 million pounds such change is not so much from wealthy citizens switching the tax domicile from Scotland to England or even incorporating to avoid tax in fact see a set that behavioral change is more to do with people simply deciding to work fewer hours rather than be taxed more we saw that with the impact of tax changes on doctors when tour attacks in positions from April 2014 have up to 55 in their pensions persuaded thousands their entirely an act of stupidity from which the NHS is still ruling therefore msps who think they have an additional income tax burden of a billion pounds say on the wealthy's imposed will see an extra billion made available for public services are deluded behavioral impacts are relevant to other devolved taxes too including the recently increased additional dwelling supplement we're keen to understand more about the drivers for Behavioral change and ask as a starting point that Scottish ministers both the hmrc and revenue Scotland to ensure more data capture on the behavioral impacts of tax changes turning to spending Social Security alone is forecast to cost five and a quarter billion in 2324 growing to seven and a quarter billion in 2728 the forecast gap between the expenditure and block grant adjustment is projected to almost double from 776 billion a million to 1.4 billion by 20 at 728 as Scottish Minister's work to realize an ambition of reducing child poverty these resources will have to be found from other areas of spending Health and Social care expenditure will grow by 1117.7 million with 102 million more for our Railways 81 million from the Scottish police Authority however there is uncertainty around how much might be needed to fund increased pay and this is a major issue across all portfolios there is no spending review identified key priorities for a form digitalization Innovation the form of this state and public body landscape and public procurement the Scottish government committed to report the initial outcomes of its public service reform program in the 2324 budget and to setting up proposals for the future of the public body landscape we seek assurances that the Scottish government remains committed to these aims the order General said there has never been a more important time to consider prioritization in public services and productivity enhancing reforms in the public sector we seek a clear and detailed response on how the ministers plan to achieve each reform priority with milestones for delivery each along with anticipated costs efficiencies and savings and will scrutinize how public bodies are working towards reform and the support they're receiving from the government to do so the draft budget 2324 has details on whether there's no spending review targets for public sector pay and head count remain and if so how they might be achieved a breakdown of where head count reductions will be made and towards times time scales would be helpful the committee acknowledges a significant chance ahead another Scottish minister to undertake more strategic long-term financial planning to ensure future fiscal sustainability including our public service reform and Social Security commitments and for our part the committee looks forward to considering an updated resource main review Scottish government's public service reform program and new public sector pay course and policy in due course lastly presiding officer I must comment on bid potential bids for increased spending from the opposition every year and it seems this year will be no different we have msps loudly demanding additional expenditure across portfolios in recent weeks anywhere else called for an additional non-demasic rate support which would cost 85 million pounds Douglas Lums and sought more and specified resources for local government and Only Yesterday Donald Cameron asked for additional indeterminate funding for the creative sector alternatives are fine members and parties that demand additional funding like any credibility whatsoever unless they can explain how much they want um percentage it is very clear that this cannot possibly be the speech of a convener of a committee of this Parliament because that speech this speech cannot have been written by a clerk employed by the Scottish Parliament and therefore this speech eight minutes which is in effect a second government speech is completely out of order Mr K I I I I can't hear you from this distance what I would say is that I've already in response to Mr Kerr's first point of order it said that my understanding is that this was their speech on behalf of the committee secondly I would point out that Mr Gibson has clarified the position for the record but thirdly I would say if there are any outstanding questions that would be a matter for the committee to pursue thank you Mr Gibson please yes just I've just got a slight bet to finish off and presenting off so thank you very much for your Indulgence and I would say that some of my old speech computer my stage one last year um and members across the party divide did in actual fact Express concerns that even witnesses to the committee did not give funded Alternatives let alone other political party so we are on Solid Ground here so alternatives are fine but members and parties that demand additional funding like any credibility whatsoever unless they can explain how much they want will that additional funding should come from now not over the contract this will change today but I live in Hope although clearly I've touched their own air with Mr care hey thank you Mr Jefferson I'm not sure if Miss Gallagher wanted to raise some point of order I don't know what Miss garlic if you wanted to raise it please raise it otherwise please don't Mr check on the timing for speeches because that was well over the allocated time position what I would say is I'm well aware of what the time is and what I I would wish to point out to members at this point there is some time in hand and we're a member takes an intervention for example that is duly noted by the chair and that will be the case for other front bench speakers as well thank you Miss Gallagher I now call Liz Smith around seven minutes please uh thank you and here was me last week giving great praise to the objectivity and the straightforwardness of his leadership within that committee presiding officer I think I will have to seek to correct the record yeah presiding officer it was in the same debate last week where I thought John Swinney was uncharacteristically rather unkind because he warned that he was going to pay far more attention to what opposition spokesman had to say on that occasion than he is today as we set out our political stalls now well used to Mr Sweeney's brand of humor but I thought it was a rather odd remark for him to make given that he's always jumping up and down urging opposition members to outline their alternative choices for the budget which of course is exactly what stage one is all about but can I begin on a few points of consensus firstly by acknowledging that the backdrop to this budget is the most challenging on record Global inflationary Fallout and from the war in Ukraine supply chain issues energy costs the covert situation which although it's hopefully getting better it's still not gone away labor markets having to adapt to post-brexit and post-covered Landscapes and of course the Fallout from the significant changes to fiscal policy in the Autumn by the UK government none of these has been in the cabinet secretary's control so we do appreciate the predicament in which he has found himself now he says that budgets must be established on the basis of sound Public Finance that's true but budgets are also about choices and it's here where we differ from John sweaty so let me explain why that is on what evidence we feel this is uh supporting our arguments and of course about how we would allocate our rather scarce resources now last week's business breakfast the Scottish fiscal commission set out its usual very objective analysis hope Mr Gibson agrees with that showing us exactly where we are within the Scottish economy right now more optimistic about earnings growth in the short run tax revenues but warning that when the nominal 1.7 billion additions to the budget are drilled down with inflation accounted for the real terms effect is much more like 279 million but the greatest concern Remains the fact that the Scottish economy has for quite some time time I'm forecast to be underperforming against the UK economy and that the demographic issues relating to a diminishing percentage in the working population are still having major impact on productivity and on overall tax revenues for the future now we know of course Minister I'm grateful to Elizabeth for giving away and I I agree very much with that about the significance of the population issue and the working age population so would she agree with me and she mentioned this point here in her remarks about the labor market implications of brexit that one of the implications of brexit has been to reduce the eligible working age population now the Scottish government will do all we can to try to boost employability but this Elizabeth agree with me that the Strategic impact of a a a measure which has undermined population growth in Scotland is undoubtedly a factor that will undermine economic growth in the forthcoming period well I would say to the cabinet secretary that other countries who've not been through the brexit process are not having quite the same problems and you know I I come back to the point again when a well it was just when he's going on about group I'm just coming to that point because I think it's most important and yes I do agree about some of the aspects that he's talked about before but can I just um focus on this on this growth thing because I think I do really think it's extremely important and Mr Sweeney always likes uh to blame Westminster for the ills that we've got in the Scottish economy and as I said in my response to the budget statement on the 15th of December I do actually think that that is disingenuous because the structural weaknesses and this is where the growth point is important within the Scottish economy they are not related to Westminster but the choices that have been made right here in Scotland for all the time that the SMP has been in power and it's also disingenuous because Mr Sweeney has had more money from the UK government than he has been prepared to admit and I I wonder if you don't mind and I remind him of the comments in the middle of December from the Fraser of allender Institute which I know Mr Swinney respects when they said that the block grant money from the UK government more or less covered the inflationary pressures upon it now Mrs money has said on more than one occasion that there is a moral argument for paying more tax because it allows the government to fund free prescriptions increase child payments free tuition fees the trouble is that the public doesn't see their higher tax burden delivering far better public services in health or in education in transport policing and housing all they see at present is cut especially in local government and a standoff between Nicholas sturgeon and kosler about the lack of flexibility when it comes to council spend especially on teacher numbers and Mr Sweeney knows only too well that Scots are accumulatively paying more than one pound one billion pound extra a year because of the slower growth this is reason just 325 million extra for public services plus the higher tax differentials create disincentives now I'm well aware regrettably that looking at the books there isn't enough money available just now to remove all the income tax differentials which currently exist which we would like to do but what I would say is that the additional tax on over half a million Scots is due to raise 95 million pounds that's less than 0.2 percent of the Scottish budget which makes a rise very much a political choice of the SNP rather than helping the economy so what has to be done differently let me begin with the Scottish government's proposal for a national Care Service the minimum estimate from an albeit seriously flawed Financial memorandum was 1.3 billion over a five-year period and the best estimate from a albeit flawed Financial memorandum just now is that it's 95 million for the coming year is it not the case that that money would be far better repositioned with local government who are very much on the front front line of delivering Health and Social care services and we know that for three committees in this Parliament the evidence is compelling from stakeholders that they don't believe that this National care service is workable one minute so I think and I've I've heard John Sweeney virtually admit that I think that that money should be better spent in local government because they are absolutely at their wit's end about where that extra money is going to come from and it's having huge implications for their plans uh for the future and we know that over the years the accumulated Barnett consequentials and health and education have not actually been fully passed on to the local authorities in the way that we originally expected now turning to business very quickly especially to the small businesses in our retail hospitality and Leisure sectors we welcome the announcement that the Scottish government is freezing non-domestic business rates but we also note that as a result of various measures announced by the chancellor to reduce the rates per business uh burden on business there will be 222 million pounds of Barnet consequentials which could well go to a 75 rates relief package we don't have to remind the cabinet Secretary of just how important our business sector is now we welcome the 20 million that has been transferred from the Indie ref 2 into additional fuel payments but we do question why as much as 35 million is designated for the external Affairs budget absolutely right an International Development humanitarian aid but we have much more of an issue with the SMP spending on various aspects of external engagement that could be done by the UK presiding officer budgets are all about choices I don't doubt that these choices are extremely tough but given the limited resources that are available for us on this side of the chamber we do not believe that the smp's priorities are in line with the priorities of the people of Scotland thank you Miss Smith I now call on Daniel Johnson around six minutes please Mr John thank you Deputy presiding officer I think right now everyone in Scotland is asking themselves two fundamental questions first of all can I afford to get ill because I don't know when an ambulance will turn up to take me to hospital or if there will be a bed for me when I get there and secondly that if bills has been a struggle to pay this year what will it be like next year once the government UK government help is withdrawn this budget needed to provide answers to these two big questions but it does not this budget has no new plans no new Solutions no new answers to these big problems these are challenging times inflation has eroded in just a moment this spending power of government but challenging times require decisive action but this budget simply does not offer those actions I'm grateful to Mr Johnson for giving away so early in his speech I just want to be clear about his line of argument that he's begun with as Mr Johnson saying that should the United Kingdom government which is proper responsibility for the management of the energy Market failed to deliver support to the outrageous energy bills that members of the public are facing that the Scottish government should use its resources to support such an Endeavor because that's exactly what he's just put on the record let me be very clear I think there's an overarching need to help people lower their Reliance on gas and what I'm talking about is mitigations so that people can actually make the homes more energy efficient and yet what this government's doing is repeating a scheme that it cut back in September because it wasn't working through a lack of demand and I'd ask this government how on Earth did it manage to devise a scheme for Energy Efficiency and insulation a time of a cost of living crisis fueled by utility bills and have a lack of demand and yet they're wanting Claud it for repeating that very budget line that they cut in September last year it's a nonsense um so you're more of the same which is all this budget is offering won't fix the discharge crisis repeating policies that you've cut won't fix the or help energy bills and leaving local councils with a 600 billion pound shortfall will not fix a single pothole reopen a single Library pay for a single extra social worker or help our kids learn and ultimately the so-called National Care Service sums up everything that is wrong but with this budget and this government it's a plan that assumes centralization will solve everything a plan that is losing the support of those that work in the sector and those that need the sector a plan that will cost billions and not add a single penny to the front line and this is a budget ultimately so lacking in transparency it doesn't even specify how much it contains for this plan and for those actually delivering care this budget offers just 40 Pence an hour extra even lower than the 50 pence they got last year a 3.8 rise While others in the health sector are being offered seven and a half and while inflation is running at more than 10 percent this makes sense we all know the front door of the NHS is jammed because the back door is broken and why because we cannot recruit care workers to deliver the care packages that so that people who are well cannot get home so 12 pounds an hour is not just a budget call it is a budget imperative to save the NHS and let's be clear 12 pounds an hour is Affordable according to spice creating a 12 pound an hour floor to adult social care workers would cost a 150 million pounds using the government's own figures that they used in 2021 it would be 200 million Pence and this money can be found reallocate the 100 million in the miscellaneous line item in the central NHS budget save 100 a million pounds by reducing delayed discharge pause the national Care Service which would save 95 million pounds in the coming year that's where Turf pounds now can be found it is Affordable but instead this government chooses to pursue a ministerial power grab instead of doing what would be right paying social care workers a fair wage I'm grateful to Mr Johnson for intervening if our oil and intervention is suggested doing the miscellaneous and the NHS line in the budget could you tell us what that would result in cuts to what services are in that I know Daniel Johnson the fact that member doesn't know shows about the lack of transparency in this budget that the budget is there to be done and let's let's have the discussion let's have the discussion and there is a wider context here because there are 300 000 people in the public sector earning less than 15 pounds now you cannot and should not build Public Services based on low P so a budget that doesn't even have a public sector pay policy let alone a Workforce plan frankly is deficient but this budget damages local Services SNP cancellages are clear the 600 million pound shortfall is going to cause them to look at eight thousand pounds of 8 000 job losses and the claim of additional funds they also point out as bogus because it's all so ring fenced that is forcing Finance directors to look at whether they can continue to afford to deliver statutory services and the reality is this is 15 years of underfunding that has caused this situation not a single budget or a single budget line 15 years of decisions from the SNP to cut those Frontline services and the absurdity of that is that these service Cuts impact Health learning poverty transport employment and inequality which will ultimately cost this government more so what labor would do is deal with that structural problem scrap the council tax not domestic rates replace it with fairer more Progressive levies and the stuc estimate that could raise as much as 450 million pounds to do so but instead of a plan for local government all we have is vague promises of a concordec Mark II I'm afraid I don't have time to take another intervention uh Mr guy in conclusion we do live in challenges times resources are tight but challenging times require decisive action and clear plan but there is no plan for this government to deal with the NHS crisis no plan to secure vital Services delivered by local government no plan to help people manage their bills and just like this government this budget provides nothing new no new answers to the challenges that people have individ scholar faces as priorities are wrong and that's why Scottish labor will vote against it thank you thank you Mr Johnson and I now call on Willy Rennie around six minutes please Mr Rainey thank you Deputy present officer we've approached this budget in good faith we're ready to support this budget if this budget is right not perfect perhaps but good enough after all we did reach an agreement before the last Scottish Parliament election In the Heat of the pre-election period so it showed that we were prepared to cross that great constitutional divide because the budget was good enough at that stage in particular we secured 120 million pound extra for mental health and I hope the deputy first Minister agrees that my party leader Alex Co Hamilton has engaged constructively in this budget process so far I accept this is a more difficult environment compounded by the actions of a conservative government that is in utter chaos we should be able to agree the innocent people should not be left to pick up the bill for this conservative government wrecking the economy including this week's desperate economic news that the United Kingdom will lag even behind Russia in its performance this year even behind Russia that should sink in and should terrify us so much for the great brexit bonus that was promised now we all continue to make the case at Westminster for uh the investment that should be coming to the various regions and nations of the United Kingdom for investment you only need to look I would argue at the Shell profits reported today unprecedented in UK company history to see why we need a proper windfall tax and we have also told the deputy first Minister where we think the money could come from to make the Investments that I'm going to set out in my contribution today but it's worth just dwelling on the performance of the Scottish economy the Scottish fiscal commission believes that the Scottish government may be losing out on almost 700 million pounds of income tax revenue because of weaker economic growth it is also projected that Scotland's economy will grow more slowly than even the United Kingdom economy over the next 50 years now that is staggering and should also be sobering for this Parliament here we need to do something dramatically different compared with what we've been doing particularly over the last 15 years certainly Thomas with member accept that perhaps some of this is to do with a flawed fiscal framework are you ready and I have to say always reaching for flawed Frameworks and flawed relationships to United Kingdom is not going to deal with the fundamentals of the Scottish economy I am afraid this government has got a perception in the business community that they are not interested in the business community and that needs to change if we're going to get the skills and the talents of the people in this country to invest in our economic growth we will continue to lag behind if we try and reach for constitutional grievances every single time so I reject what Mr Mason says of course there might be flaws in it but that's not the reason why we're lagging behind over the last 15 years and are projected to lag behind for the next 50 years productivity is the same the productivity Institute said that Scotland's productivity has been very weak over the last decade and trails behind similar foreign countries now this sets the context for this budget I've actually only got six minutes I would love to have had more more time the the less trust budget was Reckless of course it was brexit has damaged our economy without doubt it's made us poorer but the Scottish government have got a tremendous responsibility as well to turn these matters around the slower growth and poorer productivity in Scotland affect our income and that leads to change so let me set out our costed proposals first of all the NHS when the NHS recovery plan was launched one in five children were waiting too long for mental health treatment now it's one in three one in three from one and five young people are battling the long shadow of the lockdown and the rising cost of living so we are proposing we are opposed to freezing of the mental health budget and cash terms at 290 million pounds that will be eroded also substantially by inflation this comes on top of the 38 million pound cut from the mental health budget this year announced or last year announced on the 2nd of November I'm also disappointed that the Scottish government is ending I would say it's excellent work on providing Mental Health Counselors for students at universities and especially colleges and I do hope that the Scottish government reflects on that because young people have suffered greatly through the pandemic and we shouldn't be cutting support from for them at this time and we want to see more money for those suffering from long covet something that Alex call Hamilton has referred to repeatedly an extra 20 million pound would triple the size of the Scottish government's existing commitment and the 158-page draft budget was completely silent on this we need to have action on mental health and action along covet which would help the fundamental problems of the whole of the NHS is failing at this time the institute for fiscal studies says that the Scottish government has understated the real terms cut to councils once you take into account is less than pay Awards and ring fencing even SMP kosler president Shawna Morrison says that it's a bad deal now the Scottish government and not unreasonably challenges members in this chamber if we're wanting more investment in certain areas we have the spell out where it's going to come from and that's not unreasonable and that's why we've got a costly plan now the Scottish government are telling local authorities that they should not cut teacher numbers what I think is equally incumbent on Scottish ministers to tell local government where they're going to get the money from if it's good enough for us it should be good enough for the government as well so I hope that the government acts responsibly through this budget process that it is fair to local government that it provides it with the money that it needs to pay for the teachers to get the recovery in our education system that it desperately needs and if the government does all of those things then we will look seriously at the budget when it comes to stage three because we want to act constructively this country needs a government that's working for people so far I'm forward as to whether the budget's going to meet that but we are prepared to look at it and prepare to vote for it if the government does the right thing thank you thank you Mr Rennie we will now move to the open debate to speeches of up to six minutes I call John Mason to be followed by Douglas Lamson hey thank you very much a presiding officer we Face a whole range of issues as we go into the 2324 budget the economy has taken a massive hit because of covid and a range of sectors especially Health are needing both financial and human resources to get on top of things again on top of that we have the war in Ukraine with its impact on food energy and steel production and the impact of inflation both here and around the world and it's worth saying that however difficult we find our situation in Scotland many other countries including our partners in Malawi are finding things much more difficult however I did want to say a little on another major challenge which I hinted at earlier and that is the fiscal framework I know that we signed up to it fairly voluntarily although if I remember correctly the conservatives wanted us to agree to a previous version which was even more disadvantageous to Scotland the framework is to be reviewed which is very welcome but in retrospect I think we can see that we are not in a fair fight so much depends on how our economy fares in comparison to the rest of the UK and in practice that means How We Do against London and the southeast even before the Union in 1707 Scotland found it difficult to compete with England and especially with London and that Union has only tended to re-emphasize this challenge Ireland has shown that it can be done in leaving the UK and developing the economy in a different kind of way but that is not an option for us in the next couple of years in the meantime we have to adhere to the UK's economic rules taxation rules immigration rules and yes yes okay Liz Smith I'm very grateful to uh Mr Mason I don't disagree with some of the things he's just said nonetheless does he accept that the Scottish government signed up to the current fiscal framework of 2016.
yes I mean I think I said that and I think I was on the finance committee at that time I think and uh we we all looked at it and we thought it was a better deal than we had previously been offered but I think in retrospect we are now finding there are some disadvantages in it which I don't think any of us had foreseen a so as I was saying we're expected to outperform England if the block grant adjustments are to work in our favor clearly the odds are stacked against us and the fiscal framework needs to change either the UK has to make it more advantageous for us to remain with them or more and more people in Scotland will come to the conclusion that the present setup is not working for any of us clearly there is no Union dividend to move on to more of the detail of our actual budget we firstly need to maximize the resources available to us and I very much welcome the various measures to increase tax including one pence more income tax for those who are better off and two percent additional dwelling supplement for those who are buying a second home either for their own use or to let out and hopefully this will also be a boost to first-time buyers if it's very quick Dr Samson I'm the member for for giving away video we agree with me through the um the additional dwelling supplement being charged for local authorities is the wrong way and it should be that should be addressed by the government as soon as possible John Mason I think there is a commitment from the government to review that because in one sense that's money that's going around in the circle it's public money going and staying in the public part so I accept that to some extent and I think we should also remember the point made by Professor Anton muscatelli and the expert panel that while our income taxes are fairly Progressive compared to the UK and beyond our property taxes are not so Progressive and yet they are devolved now I do realize that major changes in taxes take time but at some point we need to grasp the Thistle and look at changes to council tax wider property taxes and possibly wealth taxes I think no I'm sorry I've given away twice already unless the chair is giving me a lot of extra time the the last council tax evaluation took place in 1991.
Since then I understand that house prices in the Richer areas have gone up by more than they have in the poorer areas therefore people in richer areas are paying compared to the less council tax than they probably should be and relatively speaking people in poorer areas are paying too much councils will decide how much they need to put up council tax this coming year but the system has to change and the sooner the better from my perspective and I believe for many in my constituency but whatever resources we managed to bring in we still need to make difficult choices on how we spend the idea that we come to the budget and just present A List of Demands is unrealistic and effectively misleads the public as to what is possible so I was slightly disappointed in last Thursday's debate when the subject of colleges came up and I asked the convener of the education committee if they would recommend a reduction in University funding in order to give more money to colleges she declined to comment and then on Monday I was at a launch of a report on the city of Glasgow college and I can assure you that Principal Paul little did answer that question according to him that college receives 10 000 pounds for a student to get a degree while across the road at strathclyde the University gets thirty thousand well I did not investigate his figures and I suspect there are some nuances to that however the point remains and I would hope that the education committee when it looks at colleges and their funding it would not ask for more funding for them but would all just look at that but with also I'm sorry I'm not giving away Mr Doris whether the balance is right between funding for colleges and universities I think the finance committee would be Keen for other committees to work on this area of priorities within portfolios rather than just saying colleges and universities all need more money it would be helpful if the committee came back to the government and said colleges for example should get more and universities less or vice versa I do accept that would require a degree of Courage from committees sorry Mr Doris I think I'm winding up am I um well there's a point of order sorry well I I remember should really start to conclude yeah I think it's just Mr care that misuses points of order it finally I would just mention local government primarily the debate is about how much cash they get and we Face hard choices between the NHS and local councils but other aspects which colleagues in Glasgow have raised is lesser in fencing and more flexibility and perhaps allowed to increase penalty charges by more and similar so I do commend the budget to the chamber today and I hope we can all support it thank you thank you Mr Mason I now call Dr slumson we followed by Paul McLennan up to six minutes please thank you president officer as a former Council leader I well remember the yearly Merry-Go-Round of budget negotiations with the government letters would fly back and forth meetings would be demanded and sometimes even granted the greens would demand more money for local government and the pantomime would close with money being found down the back of the Derrick Mackay sofa unfortunately we don't have that pawn to mind anymore the green slavish devotion has been bought for the price of a couple of gas guzzling ministerial cars this is shameful design officer and because despite the SMP green devolved government having the largest core Grant since Devolution it is local government yet again that has to provide more essential Services far less I have long argued that the only way to deal with some of the key issues in our communities is to deal with the problems at the Grassroots and to fund Community projects that lead to much less funding required further down the line a prime example of this is our main shared network a tiny amount in the scale of the budget but has proven to massive is proven to massively reduce Health and Social care costs further down the line by investing in these small community projects we can address so many issues such as loneliness ill health social isolation and health needs in a personal and local way but the government has slashing the budget to the men's shared network they talk about early intervention and prevention but it's all talk warm words and no action and I would challenge the government to put their money where the mouth is and fund their immense health organizations correctly the reduction to funding of our councils and the likely increase in the budget for our teachers along with much needed additional money for a social Care staff means that we will there will be cut to services in our communities the money has to come from somewhere cabinet safety and if not from the government that has to come out of the roads Parks refuse collection Leisure and education budgets I will give away bulldozers uh I remember for giving away Daniel Johnson was was very honest about how he would find more money for councils he'd Rob 100 million pounds from Scotland's NHS where would you get the money from yeah Douglasville I'm not sure if Daniel Johnson did say that but I'm not going to defend Daniel but Liz Liz Liz Smith has already set out where additional funding for our local government would come to and I will come on to that as well councils have for many years been asking for a fair funding settlement so they can continue to meet the needs of our communities the government has continuously squeezed those budgets to Breaking Point because the finance spokesperson a member of the SMP note I said local authorities had faced extremely difficult Financial choices in recent years due to real terms cuts and wider economic pressures she added there is a real danger that as well as Cuts some essential Services may stop altogether essential Services stopping altogether that is quite a legacy for this SMP green coalition but there is a different way given that the national Care Service appears appears to be dead in the water after key unions were drawn from the process our ministers back peddling perhaps the 1.3 billion that has been earmarked for this can now be diverted to the bodies that are currently delivered in Social care and are struggling our local councils to continue to put our money into this dead dock policy that no one thinks is a good idea given the current Financial pressures on our social care providers is a disgrace and this SMP green the evolved government need to wake up to the reality that currently exists a crisis in delivery and a crisis in care that has happened on their watch I'm struggling for time apologies I would like to turn now to the impact that this budget will have on business the freezer volender Institute has described this as a hard-line approach to business with no additional release being applied to hospitality and Retail as is the case South of the Border this default government has further cut 66.4 million to the city's investment and strategy and regeneration budget in cash terms this is vital funding that drives growth in cities such as Aberdeen last week I spoke about the impact on growth that this budget will have zero this is a short-term budget with short-term goals there is no financial planning or growth planning it is a budget that lacks ambition from a government that has run out of ideas but as it is the public that's paid the price for this lack of ambition and lack of solutions not only in the demise of our services but in their pockets through higher taxation than the rest of the UK middle-income earners such as teachers and health care workers are going to be hit hard with increased tax meanwhile the cost of living is hitting them hard the government is just making it so much harder for hard-working families in Scotland but while the tax gap between Scotland and the rest of the UK sees Scottish taxpayers pay 1 billion extra each year in tax that only adds 325 million to our Public Services this is a result of slower earnings and employment growth without growth increased taxation becomes meaningless without ambition growth is impossible as my colleague Elizabeth Smith has pointed out services are not improving in fact they are getting worse more and more people are seeing their bins only collected once a month police numbers are falling the attainment Gap is not improving our NHS waiting time increasing number of social Care staff falling drug debts not improving growth stalling are high streets closing the list goes on and on and on the government has more money to spend than ever before they have more opportunities than ever before but they have run out of ideas presiding an officer in closing this is a budget that's short-sighted short-term and damaging the economy of Scotland and the pockets of hard work in Scots it will see Services cut and higher taxation for many of our constituents it does nothing to do with the problems that this government has created and failed to address it will harm growth harm business and harm hard working Scots will be left picking up for this field government thank you thank you Mr lumson I know called Paul McLennan to be followed by Mark Griffin up to six minutes please listen mcleaning thank thank you representing officer it contacts this key in politics and any political decision that's made particularly at budget time the financial times and the 31st of January quoted the IMF can sign Britain to the economic dog house on Tuesday that's the only raining economy likely to contact this year the UK's growth forecasts were revised down by the fund the same times they boosted those of most other countries even Russia is expected to grow more than the UK in 2023 in the funds Outlook they then go on to say the longer term problem about expenditure and productive productivity growth persists UK productivity growth rates have dropped more than in other countries and after the 2008-2009 financial crisis no other stage let me proceed a little bit and business investment has not grown since the 2016 brexit referendum now the Tories talk around about business growth Scottish government modeling shows that Scotland's economy and social well-being are disproportionately impacted by brexit with Scotland's GDP set to be nine billion pounds lower in 2016 in cash terms a 6.1 billion 6.1 percent cut by 2030 continued to UK continue to EU membership yet labor and tories still support and want to make brexit work why does all this matter along with high inflation low growth this impacts in our scratch economy and its ability to raise taxes Denmark has talked to International Institute for management development's seventh annual digital competitive ranking an assessment of 60k countries capacity and Readiness to adopt and explore digital Technologies as a q driver for economic transformation and business the UK lagged in 14th small independent day Market with all the powers over economic air leavers I'll touch on that later Pharmacy a families businesses in our public finances are under sustained economic pressure here to get at this stage Dr Samson I thank the member for taking intervention he talks about more Powers but why does the Scottish government not use the powers that they've got um did you use the powers that they've got an old touch on other pairs that we should be looking at within the current divorce setup now families businesses and our public finances are under sustained economic pressure and the Scottish government has acted decisively to provide what support it can with them it's limited resources the budget focuses on what steps now that will ensure Scotland emerges from the current crisis a stronger fairer Greener Country Now the Scottish government of course would like to go even further but the cost of living crisis has laid bare the fiscal constraints of devolution Scottish government has proposed changes to a number of devolved taxes which will raise additional Revenue to support our NHS and other public services the finance secretary I've already learned an intervene ones the finance secretary has set out plans to add one pence to hire until top tax rates maintaining the starter and basic bans at the current level and reduce the threshold which people pay top rate from 150 to 125 000.
Now according to the Scottish fiscal commission this will raise 129 million pounds also talked about the highest higher rate threshold which will generate a further 390 million pounds the Scottish government commission estimates that the tax decisions May in Scotland since income taxpayers were devolved could raise around about 1 1 billion pound more in 2023-24 compared to the income tax policy decisions made by the UK government a supportless approach and of course those who are able to contribute more Society should do now I want to focus on child poverty and the deputy first Minister touched on that point with the investment of 442 million pounds this year jail property Action Group in everything stated we welcome the prioritization of child povert in his budget prioritizing investment to reduce inequality and eradicate child poverty is absolutely the right thing to do we know that this investment is working they've been wanting to see our cost up in a of a child in Scotland Deport analyzes the difference between commitments have had been made to make families to meet families in Scotland they then went on to say investment that's got a chill payment and other low income benefits such as free School meals free bus travel funded child care and using the costs of school days are already having a welcome impact on low income households the Scottish government is the only part of the UK to introduce our child payment which has now been increased to 25 pounds a hundred and fifty percent increase in eight months that's been extended to under 16s which is estimated to lift 50 000 people out of poverty the Scottish gun of course would like to do more which takes me back to the financial constraints of devolution the Scottish government cannot borrow to support the day-to-day expansion on times of hard to assess no I've already I've already had an intervention testosters through these difficult days John Mason touched in the physical framework discussions are taking place within the UK government the UK government has more has to give more fiscal flexibility including additional borrowing pairs particularly over Social Security and housing which are demand lead Services labored msps should support us also I'm just about ready to conclude position officer this takes me on to my final point a fundamental point about where Powers lie what this Parliament can and can influence we can't control the UK having runaway inflation which impacts in our budget not only this year but next year budget and affects every person in Scotland we can't control how much profits energy companies make and what the contribution is to tackling through poverty shell recently announced profits of 68.1 billion pounds a 53 increase in 2022 due to Soaring oil prices profits when in many can't afford to eat or eat no I'm about to conclude now we know Tories will always cozy up to corporate Giants imagine just imagine if the powers to introduce the windfall tax leave in this Parliament we're here yet Scottish labor Orla Dems won't support and given power to this Parliament to deal with povert issues a windfall tax why not what logic I welcome these Scottish budget proposals but we need four full Powers over all economic labors to ensure a fairer prosperous Greener Scotland thank you thank you Mr Clement I now call Mark Griffins we followed by Christine Graham up to six minutes please Mr Griffin thank you representing us uh stage one to be uh is generally a debate on principles of the bill and whale the the annual budget bill is slightly different we should still be able to have an open debate a bit priorities and the Strategic direction that the government plan on on taking the country with the the budget but saying after that's been almost impossible the smoke and mirrors the political Spin and at points virgin on dishonest presentation of the figures and their impact means that we can't have that to be with government because the response is just to deny reality the Scottish government talk and the same breath of the changes to their budgets in real terms but then the changes to local governments budget and cash terms the government talked about increases to local government budgets but don't bother to mention that the extra funding is already set aside for new commitments and we see that so-called extra funding trip yeah certainly Stephen Curry here my concern that in the way that the deputy first Minister handed my intervention on him about the 100 million pounds my concern that that 100 million pounds will not be additional to the current budget for education in our local authorities because of the situation he's outlining Mark Griffin yeah uh absolutely the government asked us to come to the table and have an honest discussion about where we would cut where we would spend the national funding but until we have the transparency that honest starting point that is impossible for anyone in this party without the support of government and civil servants but we've seen that um on year on year the government announced extra funding for for new government a so-called extra funding trick the announced with Fanfare a new welcome policy I give an example I live in 40 nursery hours and a warmly welcomed policy hugely important in terms of getting working parents back into the um economy supporting kids with extra early learning in in child care but the fundings announced that it's allocated in Year One then it combines with the the General Grant and it never gets upgraded with inflation so the government gets deployed it and the council is left and they squeeze other areas of budget to maintain that commitment or else what we've seen recently as they're threatened with legislation to keep it going and it's not good enough for government to come to this chamber and talk about shared priorities shared commitments if they're shared commitments then there surely must be a shared commitment to pay for the increase in cost year on year rather than leaving that Burden West local government and which is where we can't have an honest debate with the government when it comes to um ring fencing When government maintains that bring funds for local authorities amount to just seven percent rely on on a strict legal argument when there are billions more and directed spending that councils have no control over and the the recent announcement of legislation from the government in response to Glasgow can certain reducing cutting their teacher numbers shows that seven percent figure was always just spent and when we consider the impact on councils of that announcement what then does that say to other Council staff that the government only care about teachers that teachers are the only jobs in local government worth protecting now my five-year-old daughter can tell you that the jarrator the catering staff the cleansing staff the bus driver the school crossing patroller they're just as much a part of her education as teachers but they're not worth protecting because this government only seems devalue teachers when it comes to education and now all those extra staff that do just as much work what just as hard to support my daughter's education will take a bigger hit as a result of this budget and I'm sure they'll hear the message of the government's priorities loud and clear and the government also talked about the huge cuts to the housing budget appalling in the year when we've just seen the highest ever recorded homelessness figures since they've been recorded they talk about that huge cut as just reprofiling Repro filing of the 3.5 billion pounds they plan to spend anyway but Brazilian officer that has taken us and the public for absolute fools when inflation is at the highest it's been for years when inflation in the construction industry was already running out of control before General inflation caught up it's clear that spending the bulk of that funding further down the line means that it will be worth less fewer houses will be built fewer people who are experiencing homelessness will find our home and it's all just because the government want to pretend a budget cut isn't a cut shelter and space tillers it's a cut government say it's reprofiling I know who I'll be listening to and when they announced this this budget and the cabinet secretary I asked them what are the costs to the Health Service of reading budgets what happens when people can't access a local Authority's preventative Services because they simply no longer exist because of cuts I've not had an answer councils haven't had an answer what does that do to air NHS because Brazilian officer all of this amounts to cuts and someone will have to pay the bill given the preventative nature of spending communities and housing we know that we know it will be the NHS and ordinary people that will pay that price thank you thank you I call Christine Graham to be followed by Ross Greer thank you very much presiding officer our budget debate is not my usual Mitty but the principle of budgets is not a mystery an individual's domestic budget will have to balance income against expenditure or require borrowing the Scottish government income is no different except its income in the main is set by the UK and we have no borrowing powers for Revenue likewise an individual's budget has forced to prioritize payments for Necessities such as mortgage rent utilities and so on then as inflation erodes the value of that income and costs rise the savings Cuts slash choices have to be made for some who know quite simply the choice is between food bills and energy bills same with the Scottish government it has responsibility for billions but the principles remain the same the necessities of government are the responsibils we all know about the delivery of Public Services Health social care education the justice system policing providing funding to local authorities in most of these some 80 percent of what is provided is fixed in nature for example in Health and Social care hospitals all staff their salaries and pensions providing ambulances Medical Treatments and so on these are fixed costs this may seem obviousness in here but many do not understand that to cut into one budget to move to another and have any substantial effect we perhaps mean cutting into Staffing levels for example then looking across the Scottish government budget the biggest slice rightly goes to Health and Social care which takes nearly 33 percent of the total I don't think we'd argue with that being a priority the next large charcoal was 20 goes to local authorities via kosler which then divided up per Council area under a formula agreed by it which will take into account entirely are such things as demographics population rurality and so on the Scottish government does not negotiate separately with each 32 local Authority in Scotland I start from this to put the budget choices into context now in my many years here I've never known such pressures seen across the UK on government budgets in over a decade of touring government austerity indeed stagnation was inbuilt which was tolerable while interest rates and inflation were low and borrowing was cheap but it was a fragile UK economy factored in the years of covert the wall in Ukraine brexit and four chances of the exchecker in one year and we have a relative shambles of a UK government had no clear idea or a consistent idea how to manage the UK economy otherwise why four chancellors in 2022 we then end up where we are today 10 General inflation with food inflation reckoned to be near 15 energy companies swimming in unearned profits of billions so the Scottish government almost wholly depended on its budget from the UK and dealing with inflation of at least 10 percent and pay demands to match that is firefighting like it never had to firefight before yes I will murder freezer I'm grateful for discussing Ukraine for giving away on that point would you not accept the analysis by the Fraser of allender Institute that the Scottish government's budget for the coming year has been more or less protected against inflation by the increase in the block grant from Westminster finance committee this Mr Fraser but I'm calling our scrutiny of the Scottish budget 2023-24 that the Scottish government is firefighting on a number of fronts that's in your own report no wonder no wonder there's little opportunity for long-term planning and that's the problem not only that so much of individual portfolio budgets are fixed but the horrendous pressures today now I welcome Progressive policies such as free travel for all under 22s and over 60s those with certain disabilities and the carers no tuition fees free prescriptions free School meals pre-1 to P5 and the proposal to extend all primary pupils the baby box the child payment prioritizing families and children these are Scotland's future incidentally the deputy first Minister referred to the small business bonus scheme where some businesses paying audience whatsoever now that came into a Scottish government budget after negotiations with the then conservative Finance spokesman Derek Brownlee a big loss to this Parliament and that Tory group supported the budget and amended that into it those were the days when the Tories didn't just oppose what opposition's seek however other Financial commitments will fall into mitigating harsh Westminster policies and underfunding no one pays the bedroom tax imposed by Westminster that costs 70 million fuel insecurity fund 20 million this year just example of millions in mitigating Tory austerity but there are limits and the Scottish government is perhaps a victim of its own success in these years as we tend to take him at last minute but granted these mitigations so I've listened with interest to the contribution so far which always failed to see not only how much the proposal will cost on a recurring basis but from which existing budget neither is there essential recognition of the devastating impact of inflation back to where I started every household in Scotland the dogs in the street know its money is not going as far as before savings are having to be made choices are shrinking back to the basics rent mortgage heating bills food and other Scottish government is no different just as it's no different for whales thank you you must include domestic budgets thank you thank you I call Ross Greer to be followed by Miles Briggs thank you presiding officer as has been noted a number of times today in last week's Finance committed debate this is by far the most difficult context in which our Scottish government budget has had to be set at this point last year inflation was running at about two percent the UK government had cut the Scottish block grant by just over five percent in real terms and we were rightly describing that budget setting process as the most challenging that this Parliament had faced but since then a combination of the continuing damage of brexit Russia's invasion of Ukraine the spectacular disaster of West Tross and long-term Tory mismanagement of the economy have created a set of circumstances much worse than what we at that point thought was hopefully our worst case scenario despite the challenges out with our control this is the greenest budget ever scrapping peak time rail fares from September will save Travelers hundreds of pounds and end what the ASLA of Union correctly label attacks on commuters twenty thousand more children will be eligible for free School meals and 80 million pounds will be invested and expanding School catering facilities so the eligibility can be expanded to even more children as soon as possible Richard Leonard thank the member for taking in an intervention tomorrow afternoon I'm taking part in a cross party briefing with Jim Logan North atlanticshire Council they've got a 6 7 million pounds projected budget deficit what am I going to tell them about the difference the green element to the SMP green government's making you do an exactly the same thing as previous SMP governments did and that is you're cutting services you could in local jobs what are you asking them to do set wait for a de facto referend before anything changes because it's carrying on just as it was before where's your wealth tax now Ross Greer across gear that is a bold comment from a labor party that about 20 minutes ago proposed cutting 100 million pound from the NHS without even knowing what that hundred million pound cut would be best budget I was referenced to Mr Johnson would he recognize that that would be redirected within the health budget so go to social care Ross Greer I of course Mr Johnson proposed that that hundred million pounds would go into increasing wages for social care workers something that everybody I'm sure both in the greens and SMP wants to see happen the difference is Mr Johnson doesn't know what he's taking that from that's a cut to Health Care Services the labor party have proposed it what they're actually proposing to cut that is just comically irresponsible what we are actually delivering in this budget is funded in part by the most progressive tax system in the UK by raising the higher rate of additional higher and additional rate of income tax and the additional dwelling supplement the highest earners and those buying Holiday Homes and extra properties will pay a bit more to fund the Public Services which are so desperately needed during the cost of living crisis Scotland does extremely limited devolved Taxation and Revenue raise in person whilst we certainly need more financial Powers it would be wrong to just make the argument without making best use of the powers that we do have so in 20 18 the greens worked with the Scottish government to deliver Progressive changes to income tax we lowered the tax paid by the lowest paid workers and increased it for those on higher incomes those Progressive changes have raised hundreds of millions of pounds for public services but given the Monumental pressure the budget is now under and the need for high quality Public Services during this economic crisis we need to go further we might be in a cost of living crisis one pushing many households to crisis point but there are plenty of high income and wealthy people in this country who can afford to pay a bit more those on the highest incomes can afford an extra Penny on the tax rate paid on the top slice of their salary and those in the position where they can buy a second home or a holiday home can absolutely afford yes Liz Smith does he accept nonetheless comments from a lot of business and industry particularly groups like The CBI that Scotland is desperate to have more well-paid jobs roscrea of course we're desperate to have more welfare jobs and coding for the purpose of raising additional tax revenue but as we've seen as we see from the sfc forecast for income tax over the next couple of years the fact that Scotland has a more progressive income tax regime than the rest of the UK has clearly not had any detrimental effect on our ability to raise income tax revenue as I said this is a budget that we are proud of because it will see those on the higher and top rates of income tax and those paying additional dwelling supplement pay a bit more between these rate changes and freezing income tax thresholds about half a billion pounds more will be raised to support public services and to deliver these vital additional interventions like free school mail expansion and I was increased by the point that I've taken a number of interventions at this point apologies Mr care I wasn't treated by the point that was made to around the 95 million pounds that will be raised from the income tax rate increase because she identified it with the national Care Service spending quite legitimately said the conservatives wouldn't spend it on that that they would rather see that 95 million pound go to local government given that I look forward to seeing the conservatives vote for the rate resolution that delivers that 95 million pound of additional funding for our Public Services as I said last week Fair pay for public sector workers is now one of the biggest challenges that the Scottish government faces and to be absolutely clear the greens believe that all workers in the public private and third sector deserve pay Rises at least in line with inflation and we support their right to take whatever industrial action they believe is necessary but with inflation Rising above 10 percent a real terms budget cut from the UK government and extremely limited taxpayers it's impossible for the Scottish government to deliver that level of pay increase in the short term without paying for it with devastating service cuts and job losses it would cost about two and a half billion pounds but that's why I think the proposals brought forward by the stuc and unison are so important and I do welcome Labor's commitment to reform and replacement at the council tax and the non-domestic rate system perhaps with what's in the stuc and Unison papers the last time council tax was indeed was before I was born we have an opportunity in this term of parliament to deliver the kind of systematic structural change that should have been delivered a long time ago I hope from the contribution that labor have made this afternoon that they will join the two parties in the government who've already committed to do so thank you I call Miles Briggs to be followed by Colin Smith uh thank you presiding officer and I want to focus my contribution today on the housing crisis and homelessness emergency in Scotland and I couldn't actually believe that the finance secretary didn't mention housing or homelessness once in a speech he had more to say about peatland restoration than the housing emergency we face in Scotland because figures released this week show that there were 80 28 944 open homelessness cases recorded in Scotland the highest and disappointed the deputy first ministers leaving the chamber but these are the highest records since Burgers began in 2002 and 11 rise on the previous year and in a written answer to myself on the time children in Scotland are spending in temporary accommodation Scottish government data now shows that 447 households with children included in their homelessness application have spent more than three years more than three years living in temporary accommodation let that sink in for a minute in Scotland today children and their families are living in bedrooms in former guest houses for three years or more under this government if that really is the progressive pathway which the deputy first Minister outlined I don't want anything to do with it hundreds of Scotland's children are spending years in this sort of accommodation which will have a hugely detrimental impact on their physical and mental well-being this Parliament should be doing something about that and we are not and the numbers are getting worse a 10 increase in the last year alone of children living in these conditions now SMP and green ministers cannot continue to fail to act and and taking forward cuts to the budget on housing is not going to help achieve this our young people are paying the price for this SMP green government in action now Scottish conservatives last week called on this government to declare a housing emergency but ministers failed to act and it is deeply concerning I believe that this budget once again looks to Target the housing budget for such significant cuts at the very time pressures on our housing system are increasing especially here in the capital and a shell to Scotland saying their briefing ahead of today's debate the Scottish government often talks about living up to the preventative Ambitions outlined in the Christie commission yet failing to invest in social housing simply damages health and education and will leave children trapped in temporary accommodation for longer periods of time and cost the Scottish government more in the long term Inc yes Michelle Thompson we all recognize that there's a massive demand and a chronic shortage of housing given that will he support my calls for a massive increase in the capital borrowing powers of the Scottish government for exactly that sort of project Mouse breaks I think the member really should consider what she's about to vote for because SMP green ministers will be asked very soon to vote to cut the housing budget by 16 and 113 million pounds so I'm not quite sure how she thinks that will have any positive impact but I would say they need to think twice about supporting this budget later today because increasing the supply and I think I agree with her on this point increasing the supply of social housing in Scotland is crucial if we're going to address the housing emergency and developing new and sustainable tenancies with the private sector is also critical if we're going to help deliver the tenancies which people who are homeless or in housing emergency need to see but we're not seeing that we need to see a government which brings forward Solutions and that requires aggregate adequate funding to ensure enough homes are delivered to reduce housing need and get people out of temporary accommodation permanently and Charities like shelter in crisis working in Scotland day in day out to end homelessness are clear that this impact of cutting the budget will have potentially derailing the Scottish government's ability to reduce housing need in this parliamentary term dining officer just like with the drug deaths crisis SMP ministers do not seem to understand the growing need now for a direct emergency action to address the housing emergency in our country I think in years to come we will see the Madrid actually come to this chamber to acknowledge this but I'm saying today this is when we should be taking action not cutting budgets because the decisions taken by SMP and green msps to cut the affordable housing Supply program at the very time we are seeing significant increases in homelessness are the wrong decisions and the the policies we've seen especially pushed by Green msps in this Parliament recently are also undermining the potential for the private rental market to help address homelessness and deliver homes for the people across here in the capital but across Scotland now as far back as January 2022 concerns were being raised here in Edinburgh with regards to the capital losing out on 9.3 million pounds of homelessness funding and due to a bureaucratic anomaly now I raised these issues with Parliament several times with the cabinet secretary and we didn't see any action to address this in the capital now we need to see more resources given to both of Scotland cities Glasgow and Edinburgh are at the epicenter of the homelessness crisis and we need to see the resources they require all parties across this chamber at the election pledged to that we would work to end homelessness during this session of parliament after this week's shocking figures that pledge now looks unachievable without a total new approach from the Scottish government to conclude uh president officer I want to return to an issue which I've consistently raised in previous budget debates and one which ministers continue to fail to engage on or act to reform and that is the underfunding of both Edinburgh city council and the NHS Lothian we received the lowest level of funding per head of population for both our Council and Health Board that is also driving many of the crisis my constituents face and lack of opportunities to find Solutions Edinburgh deserves a fair funding deal but after 16 years in office it's clear that this SNP government is too content to continue to shortchange the communities I represent that's not fair and it has to change thank you thank you I call Colin Smith to be followed by Michelle Thompson thank you for saying officer this is once again a budget where the reality has fallen way short of the government's rhetoric take that they claim the deputy first Minister repeated again today that local government has an extra 550 million to spend what he failed to say is that almost every single penny of that is ring fence by him entirely for central government commitments as SNP LED Kozlov said the actual increase is just 32.8 million at a time local government needs 612 million just to avoid any more cuts and that doesn't return a penny of the six billion strip from local government in the past decade when they outlined his budget the deputy first Minister said something how welcome he wanted a new partnership with local government and end to the fractious debates about resources and accountability for spending a more effective way of working he said but I wonder if he's even read his own budget because SNP counselors clearly have koslo resource spokesperson Katie Hagman said the budget Council services will now be at Absolute breaking point and some may have to stop all together this is a result of cuts to our council's core budgets s p councilor Shawna Morrison and kosler president said the reality of the situation is that yet again the essential Services councils deliver have not been prioritized by the Scottish government just two days ago the finance director of SMP around Glasgow city council told us parliament councils are on a knife edge this was the worst year we've ever had it's not a new way of working presiding officer it is the same old anti-council anti-local service we we have seen for the past seven years as a direct result of the cumulative effect of budget after budget voted for by SNP and green msps counselors of all political Persuasions and none will once again have to wrestle with the painful choice of which of their community services do they cut and which of their neighbors jobs do they acts as part of the seven thousand jobs causal one could be lost because of this budget the debates have taken place in council chambers up and down Scotland in the next few weeks won't be about what local services to trim there'll be about which services to scrap altogether now I recognize the difficult financial position we find ourselves in it's been made more difficult by the government presiding over years of low growth but we do need to ensure we focus what funding we do have and how best we protect services such as social care deliver Fair pay for workers and support people through this cost of living crisis these priorities are connected we won't protect social care in the NHS without addressing the scandal of low pay in Social care a day really goes by when my inbox and I'm sure others doesn't contain another heartbreaking case exposing how utterly broken our care services are today a third of beds in Dumfries and gallery Royal infirmary are occupied by patients whose discharges delayed by a lack of carers over three thousand hours of assessed care not being covered because there are no carers to cover it everybody except this government knows we won't recruit those carers with a divisory 3.8 pay rise being given to social care workers by the government SMP ingredients should listen to those calls for the delay to their current unpopular unworkable uncosted National care service plan and use the funding to give our carers a pay rise actually saving money in the long term by reducing that bill for delayed discharge and it's not just in Social care we need to better focus how we spend our budget it's on how we support people during the cost of living crisis as their energy bills rise president officer it was shameful that the deputy first minister with the support of the greens cut this year's Energy Efficiency budget by 133 million pounds given the shameful level of fuel poverty we have in Scotland and knowing that properly insulating forms not only Cuts fuel bills but it cuts fuel use and therefore emissions last year the government's worn homes funding helps fewer people than it did in the very first year this scheme was launched only around half the funding allocated for Energy Efficiency schemes administered by councils was ultimately spayed but you don't tackle low uptake by cutting the budget you tackle it by dealing with the reasons why they couldn't poorly design schemes are not being utilized I certainly will Patrick Harvey I'm grateful to the member I think we all know that when one particular budget is under spent that money doesn't disappear it goes back into other public services but would he acknowledge that as a result of changes we have made recently Scotland now has by Far and Away the most generous and the most flexible package of Grants and Loans not only better than any other part of the UK but much much better than Scotland itself has ever had and that the industry is stepping up and making sure that the capacity is there to make sure that people can use those grants and Loans Colin Smith there's no point in having schemes and grants if they're not actually being spent they are not you have just returned 133 million pounds to the budget because those schemes weren't actually allocating they needed the minister and I know he's made some changes and I welcome those changes for this financial year but he knows perfectly well the organizations like the existing homes Alliance want him to go and awful lot further they want them to ease the restrictions that are still imposed in councils and others for what are currently on workable skills there needs to be more flexibility and owner contribution levels to make those schemes affordable you need to tackle the utter failure in workforce planning from government to make sure we've actually got the trained workers to deliver the schemes under the new regimes that the government have set and it also means providing more certainty on future funding such as rental councils and setting up that minimum funding levels for future years and that will allow councils to plan longer term projects and give Supply chains a proper pipeline of work and enable them to imply and invest we cannot find ourselves in the same position next year when households are crying out for an investment to keep their families warm but the government aren't able to spend funds that should be being invested in rapidly insulating people's homes presiding officer Scotland is facing dual crisis as the cost of living stores and social care in the NHS phase thank you Mr Smith and live in memory thank you and I call Michelle Thompson the final speaker in the open debate thank you presiding officer this budget debate already feels like Groundhog Day unless Scotland gets many more meaningful economic powers and ideally from my perspective Independence I confidently albeit sadly predict my speech will be replicated in the coming years the fact is there is no Prospect of the UK doing anything other than continuing to fall behind the economic performance of other comparable States we've talked earlier of the dami and verdict of the IMF that the UK is predicted to be the only country facing a shrinking economy in the coming year and is expected to be the worst performing State amongst the G7 the G20 and predicted to be worse than sanctions hit Russia but I concede these are uncertain predictions for the future so let's look to the certainty of the past data over the last 40 years and particularly since the financial crash of 2008 shows UK economic growth has lagged behind the average for large and small advanced economies over the last four decades and particular over the last two decades when the economic growth Gap has widened yet small advanced economies of a similar size to Scotland experience cumulative economic growth that was double that of the UK between 1999 and 2019.
put another way by 2019 the gap between the small economy average output and the UK output had grown to more than twelve thousand seven hundred pounds per person this is other real world practical consequences for example within the last few days data from the UK insolvency service reveals that annual companies in solvencies in the UK have shot up in 2022 to over 22 000 a rise of no less than 57 jobs self-respect livelihoods and Ambitions destroyed has Faisal Islam reported this is exactly the sort of pattern predicted by those who opposed brexit but of course labor and Tory alike are as one in accepting this brexit debacle they become the handmaidens of brexit and are intent on forcing the Scottish people to accept it regardless of the cost in jobs and services so in this context the efforts of the Hackley yes I wonder as I troops down the streets campaigning um against brexit could she explain perhaps why the SNP spent more in the orkney by-election than they did on opposing brexit in Scotland I'm sure she doesn't I'm sure she doesn't think that's an excuse which user doesn't think that's an excuse for uh standing idly by whilst exactly my point is made about jobs and services lost thank you thank you we will hear Miss Thompson thank you thank you thank you presiding officer and in this context the efforts of the Deputy first Minister acting as Finance Minister in particular should be applauded as if being faced by the UK failures I've just described as not enough the Devolution settlement ties his hand behind his back in multiple ways so let me outline two examples and I've spoken of this before the severe restrictions placed on borrowing Powers if the opposition parties were sincere in their concern about productivity for example they would be actively supporting calls to give the same freedom to borrow particularly for capital projects is that enjoyed by the West Windsor government and second if they were sincere in their concerns about the Scottish economy they would be insisting on the transfer of all fiscal powers to Scotland delighted thankful member for taking this intervention the Scottish government's budget documents puts price inflation for the building sector which I know she's aware of at 17 why therefore cutting the capital investment budget at a time when Investments are most desperately needed is taking place Michelle Thompson I think you need to look in the wider context of of the budget the point I'm making is that if we had greater Powers overcast Apex in particular we could do a great deal more and until you start joining me in those calls these are shallow words when you claim looking for more housing and that is the fact we know um that the unionist Brigade will do nothing but deny Scotland the necessary powers to tackle the key challenges we face and as I've said before in this chamber and recent reports again from Transparency International open democracy and all of an authors such as Oliver boo over evidence there is corruption at the heart of UK governments and key institutions leaving aside even the individual records of recent Prime Ministers chancellors baronessities and goodness knows who else corruption destroys the potential effectiveness of markets and puts obstacles in the paths of many decent businesses seeking to survive compete and progress on the historic Legacy of Labor and two reactions of years past continues to haunt government including local government in Scotland now in my patch Falkirk Council has a 13 million obligation legocacy from PFI and it's not the only Legacy they face commenting in 2016 audit Scotland's best value audit report criticize previous labor and Tory administrations for failing to grasp the metal of major challenges and instead squandering money leading directly to a deficit of 67 million pounds in such circumstances the Scottish government and the acting Finance secretary in particular have faced huge challenges with imagination and with a clear commitment to the interests of the Scottish people so let me finish with an appeal to the finance secretary in the midst of all the challenges let us work to unleash the contribution of female entrepreneurs who faced historical disadvantages including cultural ones is never enough to only to government and facing challenging times or New Opportunities we need to mobilize all our talents regardless of sex race age or other characteristics so we on these Banks Miss Thompson we want to look forwards and outwards we have Global Ambitions we are European thank you Scotland wants to get on we moved to winding up Species and I call on Jackie Bailey thank you very much presiding officer as ever the SNP present a sleight of hand budget where their cuts are magically spun as generous settlements particularly if you're in local government but otherwise it's always somebody else's fault welcome to the snp's Alice in Wonderland approach to budget setting now SNP members are Keen to tell us that there is a fixed budget but of course there are fiscal levers the government can pull income tax land in building transaction tax goodness they can even reform the council tax promised in 2007 but never delivered but what people are seeing is their taxes going up but Services being cut at the same time now the budget is about setting out priorities where are the measures for growing Beyond growing the economy on which our future tax take will rely where are the measures for tackling the cost of living crisis for investing in our Public Services now the national performance framework sets out what the government believes are the priorities but it's interesting that there's no link with the budget spending over 45 billion pounds in Revenue but not linking it to the delivery of your priorities is frankly absurd and out of state with almost every other oecd country now let me start with local government one billion is what kosler said they needed to cope with the cost pressures for the year ahead instead the undering fenced money they got amounted to about 32 million pounds Mark Griffin was absolutely right to point out that funding for new commitments doesn't actually help with core budgets the consequence of this is Libraries closing teacher numbers being reduced funding to repair our roads slashed and deep cuts across every local service and according to a leaked report from kosler almost 7 000 staff could lose their jobs a centralizing government that has decided to Simply sacrifice local democracy and services criticized by their own SM P counselors but this government is deaf to their concerns let me move on to Health and Social care inextricably linked and must be equally valued the Royal College of nurses tells us that they want to see Fair pay for nursing staff in the budget a focus on retention and reversing the growing number of vacancies which is having an impact on patient safety and we agree but you can substitute the word social care worker in place of nurses and the same applies the poor pay leading to many of them leaving their jobs in retail and taking jobs in retail and Hospitality because they get more money there and less responsibility and the increasing number of vacancies and the challenge to ensure the safety of those cared for now the crisis in Health and Social care cannot be resolved without addressing the scandal of low pay in Social care itself but this budget offers little the 40 Pence uplift is an insult to staff a social care worker is comparable to a Band 3 us social care workers got 3.8 percent nurses got double that the Scottish women's budget group were also very clear that care workers wages should be set at 12 pound fifty in the short term rising to 15 pound per hour a move that Scottish labor have repeatedly called for over three successive budgets the Coalition of care and support providers also makes the point that more money for social care workers a predominantly low-paid female Workforce is more spent in the local economy but of course the deputy first Minister stripped 50 million away from the fair work budget in his emergency budget so he's shown where the snp's priorities lie the cost of increasing adult social care pay is 150 million pounds this has been verified by spice Daniel Johnson set out several budget lines from which this could be drawn more than was actually required to meet the policy take it from the national Care Service take it from delay discharge after I actually say it is a bit Rich for Ross Greer to falsely claim that we were moving money out of the Health and Social care budget and can I remind him it was after all the greens who promised 15 pound an hour to social care workers before the election in the manifesto but sold out for ministerial mondios instead now the deputy first Minister knows my view of the current framework bill for the national Care Service instead of a vision and approach that delivers cultural change we have expensive structural change that doesn't invest one single penny extra in a care package is nothing more than a national commissioning service with no answers about what happens to the pensions of the 70 000 public sector workers who will be transferred in or indeed the potential to have an additional 20 vat cost imposed on a centralized service costs are unhappy trade unions are unhappy the third sector the voluntary sector unhappy those with lived experience are beginning to understand that this is The Emperor's New Clothes pause the bill and listen to what the sector are telling you use the money released to fund social care we all acknowledge that we're living through one of the worst cost of living crisis in a generation and at a stroke the SNP could end non-residential care charges a cost of 68 million this would help sustain older people and vulnerable people those with disabilities in their local communities is in your Manifesto you can do it now and you can help some of the most vulnerable people in Scotland presiding officer after 15 years of the SNP their cuts to training places for nurses their cuts to Primary Care their reduction in the number of whole time equivalent GPS the cut of 1 billion by Nicola sturgeon when she was Health Minister all of this has contributed to the crisis in Health and Social care Scotland cannot afford to pay the price of SNP mistakes any longer vote against the budget thank you and I call on murder freezer thank you uh presiding officer um early on in this debate we had a bizarre contribution from Kenneth Gibson the winner of the finance and public administration committee now I've been the convener of three committees in my time in this Parliament I I had always understood the role of committee Covina in a stage one debate was to speak on behalf of the committee and express the views in the committee report not to be a partisan laptop for the Scottish government which is what we heard from Mr Gibson during his speech and I do hope a presiding officer if that is going to be the trend in future debates that you and the bureau will reflect on the time available to committee conveners to speak in stage one debates is it going to be Parkinson but I'll give way is the reason why your colleague Mr care not so upset is because people were reminded of the rather ridiculous comments he made host budget last September and if you hadn't been named you wouldn't have had any interventions because last year I was more part designer this year if you'd actually listen to the speech you would find that most of the criticism levied was actually towards issues such as the lack of Reform Etc going forward so it was a very balanced speech but the reality is it was your ego and Mr cares they made you intervene by the convener of the finance and public administration but let me come to some of the points the substance that that he raised because he seemed to suggest and it was a theme coming from the SMP benches he seemed to suggest that the the economic challenges being faced in the United Kingdom are somehow unique to the United Kingdom but that of course is not the case it is true inflation is high but inflation is coming down inflation is also high in Europe residing officer and is coming down in fact in the month of November UK inflation was lower than the EU average in the month of December UK inflation was lower than many other European countries it is true no I need to I need to make this point it is true that uh this morning this morning the bank of England increased interest rates in the United Kingdom by 50 base points it is also true that today the European Central Bank increased interest rates by exactly the same level 50 basis points it's also true that yesterday the FED in the USA increased interest rates in the United Kingdom it is also true that interest rates are today in the United Kingdom lower than they are in the USA and in Canada no presiding officer maybe it is the case but let's trust is to blame for what is happening in the USA in Canada in Germany in Italy in France and the rest of Europe well I think frankly that is somewhat unlikely no beside you up there let's look at the overall size of the budget big um I will if the member is brief Daniel Johnson I'm just wondering if how many of those countries withdrew hundreds of mortgage products in September this year like happened after the mini budget and there's trusses uh intervention murder well there are plenty of mortgage products available today Mr Johnson you need to keep up with the news and see what's happening but I want to turn a look at the overall size of the budget because there was in The Current financial year I think this is widely accepted a record high level block grant from the UK government to the Scottish government and for the the year that's coming for the year we're talking about the Fraser of Allen Institute say that the the block grant more or less protects the money to the Scottish government against inflation so the Scottish government has in historic terms looking back over the period of devolution more money to spend than virtually every year uh previously and yet at the same time taxes are going up and services are being cut thanks to the choices they are making and we should never forget in all this that in Scotland we have more than two thousand pounds to spend for every man woman and child in the country than is the UK average thanks to the Barnet formula the Barnet formula that they want to get rid of a presiding officer and that is the union dividend that John Mason was looking for now this is about choices and Elizabeth set out the approach we would take that would be different starting with the national care service at least 1.3 billion pounds to be spent over the next five years that is money that could be reallocated elsewhere we will look at the Constitution budget and the money being spent on civil servants preparing for another Independence referendum was not now going to take place we look at the money wasted on projects such as python such as Presto airport such as the ferries but there's a more fundamental Point here isn't there because we know that the UK economy has since 2014 grown up precisely one half of the UK average rate and if we could only just match the rate of growth of the UK economy we'd have hundreds of millions of pounds extra in tax revenue to spend and that's a matter the Scottish government needs to be paying attention to and that's not just a historic issue it's one for the future as both Willie Rennie and Liz Smith pointed out so we set out in this budget for us we believe the support for business is 75 percent uh rates relief for those in the retail hospitality and Leisure sector that is available elsewhere in the United Kingdom should be available here in Scotland we believe that the settlement being proposed for local government as Douglas London pointed out it's unfair Mr Sweeney said how he's giving local councils more money and yet all we hear from them is that they're having to cut Services yesterday I got a letter from councilor David Ross the leader of five Council expressing deep concern at the cuts in five Council saying that already despite identifying 22 million pounds of savings for the coming year they're still facing another 11.5 million rising to 33 million next year and 54 million the year after and that is reflected right across the country in perfect and Ross Council that Mr swimming you'll be familiar with they're looking at a funding gap of 26 million pounds in the coming year and it's not just labor-led councils or conservative-fled councils making these concerns SNP Council leaders are making exactly the same concerns as well and what this will lead to is cuts and services hikes and council tax we're going to see school crossing patrollers going breakfast clubs being scrapped educational psychologists scrap library is being closed the cultural offer being cut back and we don't know yet what's going to happen to teachers because we're waiting to hear if teacher numbers will be protected but Mark Griffin I thought made a really good point because even if teachers are protected that will come at the expense of classroom assistance it will come at the expense of janitors it'll come at this expense of catering staff all the other people working in education and that will be to the net detriment of our young people residing officer so in conclusion presiding officer John's going to get the outset said he was going to take a progressive path well we know now with that Progressive path looks like despite having more money to spend than ever before he's hiking taxes hiking income taxes will see Council taxes hyped and at the same time we'll see cuts to vital services for people across Scotland that's what this budget delivers and that's why we need to vote against it yeah thank you and I call on John Swinney to wind up the debate up to eight minutes cabinet secretary thank you president officer in his speech to the parliament this afternoon the finance committee convener asked me to provide an update on the current Financial year and the degree to which I am wrestling with securing a path to balance and for completeness to the convener I am still wrestling with an estimated overspend at this stage in the financial year which is a very Advanced stage in the financial year of approximately 100 million pounds so we are still working to secure balance a despite the the steps we've taken in the course of the year to reallocate public expenditure not be reflected in the spring budget uh revisions that are put to Parliament and for scrutiny by the committee and I want to thank Willie Ray for the constructive contribution he made to the debate and assure him that I will follow up the the points and the dialogue that he's raised as part of the discussions today and he raises serious issues about the mental health budget and about long covered and I agree very much with them about his Reflections on the energy market and the significant opportunity for windfall taxation arising out of the ludicrous profits that have been made by energy companies at a time when our constituents are facing such hardships so I very much welcome the construction constructive contribution that William has made and we will try to build on that as I obviously value the support that is given to the budget by our partners in the green party Ross Greer referred to this budget as a progressive budget and um I welcome the contribution the green party has made to ensure that the issues of Taxation are properly um considered in this budget process and result in us being able to afford priorities that would not have been the case had we not taken those decisions so that has been welcoming put into the discussion and there was quite a bit of controversy well it's you know it's not the first time in life that Kenneth Gibson has found himself in some controversy um but let me let me try to be as always The Peacemaker in Parliament because and model 3s are two great exception to the contribution of my colleague and friend Kenneth Gibson and asked whether members of the committee supported the reflections that Mr Gibson was putting on the record and I want to put on the record the quote that I was met with when I went to the finance and public administration committee on the 4th of October 2022 in the aftermath of the disastrous catastrophic quartet budget I was met with Good morning Deputy first Minister which is always a nice warm welcome from my friend Liz Smith unless Smith put on the record that they are put on record that I understand and accept that your job is much more difficult because of the difficulties that have been introduced by the Westminster government particularly with regard to the forecast so I do think it's important that um model Fraser's bravado is disarmed by the calm a contribution and and realistic contribution of Elizabeth Smith to the finance committee debate which I appreciated because she was right at that moment I was wrestling with significant difficulties and I continued to do so and and of course and and and of course I'm delighted to hear more from Elizabeth that is very kind uh Mr Swinney and in my calm demeanor could I just ask the cabinet secretary if he actually agrees with the convener of the finance committee about some of the political aspects Within his speech as to whether that was appropriate in a convener's speech in relation to what he was supposed to be like cabinet secretary I think it's really important that government ministers don't interfere in the business of committees so I shall I show I shall resist the temptation to get myself into trouble which I constantly try to avoid but on that subject I do want to explain to Parliament how the budget operates because I think a few members Mr care has struggled very much with the concept today and I think Mr Griffin was a little bit I normally very appreciative of Mr Griffin's contribution I think it's maybe he's called that's getting them under the weather today but it's derailing him in his contribution when we get bonded consequentials they flew into the total funding envelope that's available and then the total funding envelope gets allocated so what is in here is the sum total of all the resources at my disposal so when Mr care asks me where is the 100 million pound of consequentials from the United Kingdom government on education the answer is that they are fully allocated in here and as two examples of where they have ended up there is well let oh no let me finish the explanation because Mr care needs to hear it he's desperately in need of hearing this explanation the 100 million pounds of education consequentials is allocated to support the expenditure in here which results in an increase for universities and colleges of 46 million pounds and an increase in the local government budget of 550 million pounds and local government are the people who deliver Education Services in our country so I hope that helps Mr care to understand this situation if you know I said I would give away to Mr care first I think the deputy first Minister for his explanation in fact that's exactly what I was asking when I intervened where is the additional 100 million you have now no you have the the deputy first Minister has now explained it's in the local government budget this is the same local government that are complaining about the fact they have now to make Cuts I'm asking will the will the bionic consequences of Education be additive to the education spend and the answer that clearly is no cabinet secretary I think Mr care has demonstrated he has not a single clue about how the public financials of Scotland worked and I'm not and I'm not going to explain that again because he's going to have to go and read the official report because I've just given the explanation and Mr care demonstrates he is singularly unfit to be contributing to these debates today it's absolutely appalling and the same explanation applies to Mr Griffin's point about the 550 million pounds for local government now in the course of this debate uh Mr Mr Gibson made the fair point that we're concept we're alternative choices are brought forward there has to be a funding source to come from today and I'm just going to master what the conservatives have said they want more money for housing Miles Briggs more money for City Deals Douglas Lumsden more money for local government Miles Briggs Douglas Lumsden more money for Bristol streets Douglas Lumsden Liz Smith the opposed the tax increases that's threat means we get less money just for the completeness of the if we if we don't have the tax increases that's less money is available to us education Mr care wants it to get more money and Miles Briggs wants more money for health now I simply say to Parliament this is economic illiteracy of the highest order because there is no Source identified for the funding resources I will if we if I'm I'm I think the percent officer wishes me to cause my uh my remarks indeed I simply put on the record that it's just not credible to come I'll happily engage with Mr Rainey and anyone else who wants to talk about where we can take money from money to the budget to allocate to another to support priorities but what is not helpful to the dialogue and the discourse in Parliament is proposes coming forward that play to a gallery that play to a Lobby that haven't got a hope of ever being delivered because the money doesn't exist because of the failure of the economic management of the United Kingdom government which is the problem I'm wrestling with today thank you that concludes the debate on budget Scotland number two bill it's now time to move on to the next item of business and there's one question to be put as a result of today's business the question is that motion 7727 in the name of John Swinney on budget Scotland number two Bill b agreed are we all agreed the parliament is not agreed therefore we will move to a vote and there'll be a brief suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system foreign